Thanks so much Nick, I appreciate your post so much you may never know At the same time, though, I know this isn't pouryourdrunkenheartoutratherthankillyourself.com. I know I shouldn't post like this. I'm just screaming inside right now. I have a musician friend who goes camping in the woods and howls at the moon...the thought always scared the Dickins (British expression no doubt) out of me, but right now I can see the appeal. I might contact him and see if I can join him sometime. I also have a Miqmaq friend who takes an annual 'vision quest'. Sacred (psychoactive) herbs are an important part of that long, cross-country rite. I think his trip is coming up soon, I may contact him too, though it'll mean a flight from the UK to Maine (which I'd need to drink through if the last few days are any indication).

Recently I've been getting a bit deeper with my therapist about the long-term terminal illness and death of my late mother (who I alone could try to care for), which is where the anxiety and panic attacks come from, I've come to be sure. Perhaps stirring all that up has got me where I am right now, here at this point. There're emotions coming out of me I never knew existed, and the ones I already had were bad enough!!

My (TSM) doctor told me today told me 'you buggers (us alcoholics) are complex' and suggested that that's what makes natrexone treatment (TSM) so complex, because there is so much else happening in our minds; in us physical dependency on alcohol is only one of the major roots of a whole tree of stuff that we must ultimately deal with (my analogy). I thought that was a great point.

It's just the short term intensity of the anxiety and panic attacks I can't bear. I'm worried that I won't be able to stand them much longer, and that if returning to abstinence would get rid of additional suffering that may be my only choice. Nick, when I get these attacks I am certain I am going to die, it's not just a fear. The feeling rises in me, and it seems my mind is trying to push my body as far as it can to actually have a heart attack. I haven't had one yet, thank God, but I'm 34 and with all the family history of heart attcks and stroke, and a heavy drinker and smoker myself of 18 or so years now. It's surely only a matter of time. I almost crawled up on the pavement (sidewalk) and cried today it was so intense.

I need to see my psych fairly urgently I think. I can't carry on like this.

I also need you to stop comparing me to Brad Pitt, Nick. My eyes ARE brightest blue (with flecks of yellow and green) but my hair is brown and curly. I think I'm a better match for the dashing gentleman that is...Simon Cowell

A vision quest can be a wonderful thing, but be prepared, as it is not to be taken lightly.

I want to really be clear that what I'm about to relate is personal experience and not medical advice!

I would get panic attacks where I would have to stop driving, or walking or whatever and just crawl to the ground, as you said. I would get into such a terrible frantic fear, I also was certain I was going to die in moments. I would feel tingling in my arms and neck, and have shortness of breath, and even chest pain: in short, I had all the symptoms of a heart attack without actually dropping dead on the spot.

To make matters worse, my best friend at the time (also a heavy drinker) claimed to have had many heart attacks, and was sure he was going to die soon. He was also sure that I was having them, and he even drove me to the ER, where they found that I was suffering from alcohol poisoning along with ridiculously high blood oxygen levels. They told me to go home and get some sleep - fat chance! I went to the bar and had a couple of shots!

I eventually began to correlate these events with the amount of alcohol consumed the previous night, and with the amount of sleep (or lack thereof) I had gotten. I knew that I could hold the panic attacks at bay with alcohol, so I decided that I must not be having heart attacks. I've never heard of pounding shots being a cure for heart attacks, but it sure kills panic attacks in a hurry!

Then I noticed that the panic attack always came a while after having my first meal after a night of serious drinking. That was what clued me in to the blood-sugar issue, because not only can that meal eventually cause your blood sugar level to plummet (because of excess insulin), but the digestive action can cause weird sensations in your neck and chest. There have been many cases of people thinking they were having heart attacks when it was actually indigestion! Then there is the hyperventilation that happens when you start becoming convinced that you are going to die on the spot. Combine this with hangover-induced paranoia and you have the recipe for a serious panic attack.

And Nick is right: there is nothing worse.

Again, this is just my experience, and not medical advice but what about trying to moderate a bit, just to get yourself out of panic mode, but sparing yourself the nightmare (and physical trauma) of detox? Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

I sure hope you feel better soon!

Fire

Thank you so very much Firebird for your post, you have given me much to think about.

I get panic attacks even when not drinking (I was recently, effortlessly, abstinent for four months) but they are certainly worse in periods when I do.

I get no sensations as such in my neck or chest, other than my heart feeling like it's doubling its rate and trying to burst from my chest. I get very dizzy, and an intense feeling like I am torn between sprinting away and just collapsing in a heap on the ground. Today in London I tried to start sprinting just to burn off some adrenaline but couldn't actually physically manage it and almost collapsed on the floor. I managed to stagger the few streets to the nearest bar and had a beer as I knew that'd help. The desperate alcoholic inside me? Very likely. The first drink didn't help, nor did the second...by the fifth I felt able to brave the Tube (Subway) and try to get to my station to get home. I've been drinking ever since - not crazily, but solidly, enough to keep me calm.

You are so right my friend by the way that it can't be a potential heart attack if a drink will stop the feeling, but at the same time I worry so that the brain can push the body to almost anything, and at those times I feel so very right there on that edge...

Also, you make another point, so very pertinent, and most probably at the heart of everything, but trying to moderate is not an option for me. I am not in control one bit over my anxiety or my drinking, though there have been glimmers. Early signs are that I may find that control from TSM, but how much damage I could do myself until then...

I do not ever want another day like today, and would be prepared to make a break for abstinence if it'd make the difference. I have valium here so I can do a home detox safely (I've been through enough professional ones, I know what to do, and have only been back on the drink for six weeks). I'll just try to have an easy day tomorrow and get back on track I suppose I really should have expected days like this, but as someone who has longed for so very long to re-ignite my career and be a fulfilled member of society again it is so hard in many ways to feel like I am just right back at the start...dammit I have given up my life, my career, my business, to care for sick family members for the last five years...is this my payback...to be continually sick and in pain myself???

Alright, REALLY my selfish wallowing here on the board is over. I have other places to go for that (a music/band forum where it's expected, and actually the way I can do it, being genuine rather than mere posturing, goes down rather well ).

I'm sorry to trouble you all here, and look forward to getting back on track tomorrow and the next day, and reporting more positive progress here (of which there has been much, the last 24hrs aside)

8

Hi 8, boy do I relate to everything you have said. I too took care of aging parents from 87 til 93 and would have such panic attacks that I would have to pull the car over and pop a Xanax without water in order to get a few blocks from home. I also gave up my life to do this, work, friends, etc. Those days were terrible. I would get attacks in certain places over and over. To this day, if I am hungover I can go to that same place and a panic attack can occur. I sweat, my legs shake, I feel as if I am very dunk beause my head spins. I also have read your posts and realize you feel a need to either moderate immediately or obstain! A few ideas, could you try Reikki or theraputic touch? In some places they will do this for free one time only. Also, something that saved my life was tapes by Lucinda Basset, you can find her online. I went into a hospital to detox from anxiety meds and when I came out had PTSD and the anxiety was 24/7 could not unpack my suitcase for a month! The tapes tought me coping skills that literally saved my life, unfortunately stupid me decided I could drink, so here I am. Hope some of this helps. M

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and ideas my friends. I've been reading here but not really back to this thread since I last posted (I was sick of being a whinger), but reading your excellent advices I realise I have to think about all this again, and do whatever I can.

I still don't feel much like posting, really. So just to say that I've been drinking 16 to 20 UK units a day since my last reports (that's up to two bottles of wine I think) which is too much for me, but I just have. My anxiety has been through the roof, with a constant tightness in my chest that scares the whatnots out of me. And I've had to use a lot of sedatives most days, though I never mix them with alcohol.

I'm going back to my psychiatrist in the next few days to push for trying Baclofen for anxiety, the last thing I need now is a benzo-dependency on top of everything else, but at the moment valium and alcohol are all I have.

I am trying to cut down on the alcohol, slowly; still keeping up with TSM to the letter, and I'm also trying to get out more to build my social confidence.

Fingers crossed I can pull myself out of this hole!!

Bless you all

8

Hi, Eightday!!

You are not a whiner - why, you are a winner and please don't forget it... you are here aren't you, along with the rest of us and that is good... real good! We will just keep trekking along.

We are in this journey together! Now go and have a great week and keep us posted.

BB

Thank you bamabeachin

Well, as I posted on my other thread in desperation, things have been very hard for me this week. Last Saturday I went to a huge concert at Wembley Stadium, and my anxiety levels were so high I almost gave my ticket away outside because I saw no way of making it through. With enough sedatives I did though, and those later gave in to beers (but not a huge amount). A few more drinks when I got home made it a very late night, and the folowing day I made the mistake of daytime drinking. Starting off with beer, but moving onto straight Whisky.

This was a VERY bad move. Nal means alcohol has lost a great deal of it's effect, and this can be quite dangerous how to judge how wasted I am really getting. Basically I can drink Whisky like water now, and this daily drinking continued for two more days, when I returned to my GP. So, for Sunday and Monday I estimate at up to 30 UK units (equivalent to three bottles of wine, I believe).

Since then I have been trying to get out of this mess by upping my valium to up to 10mg a day. Something in me has changed though, whereas 2mg used to work well for hours, even these much higher levels are barely touching my anxiety, they just make me very sleepy

Tonight I am on my first light lager, and it's is tasting absolutely foul. I am sure I will have two or three more though, which will give me a much happier total of less tham ten UK units for the day - a huge improvement, and lets hope my anxiety will likewise decrease.

Tomorrow will be interesting as I am to see my GP who wants me to take anti-depressants. On my other thread folk have so kindly offered suggestions for other meds I can discuss with him. I am very hesitant to take anti-depressants which will totally change my feelings right at the point where I am getting somewhere starting to open up to my therapist about the traumas which have given rise to my panic disorder in the first place.

Hopefully though, one way or another, as Yazz sang so enthusiastically, the only way is up.

Hey 8,

I've avoided responding in your other thread because I've been in rather delicate place myself the last couple of days and didn't want to give some bad advice. I've been following it intently though and need to tell you that I feel for you.

This is just my opinion, but if a doctor tried to push something like that on me and I said no for the reasons you've stated...they'd better listen. I've got a pretty warped view of doctors in general though, they only know what they know.

I can only be partially empathetic, I don't have an anxiety problem above and beyond what AL does to me. Last year I was crippled by a strange form of arthritis. They treated it successfully with prednisone, which is a steroid and incidentally a stress hormone. It made so that I could walk again, but the resulting anxiety was one of the worst feelings I've ever had. I felt like I wanted to crawl out of my own skin. It was so bad I discontinued the med which confined me to a wheelchair and horrible pain--but it was better than feeling like that.

You have my deepest sympathy 8. I can't wait till this is behind you. -Evan

Evan thank you so much my friend for your empathy and kind thoughts.

I think you are absolutely right, but feel like it's the only option I'm being offered. I don't think he's going to be happy prescribing valium at the present rate for very much longer, especially if I tell him I am still drinking and about TSM. That's why the list of other, alternative meds that people have provided me with could be so valuable.

I'm so sorry to hear you have been having your own troubles mate. All I can say is that if you feel like sharing any of it here you will be amazed, as I was, by people's kindnesses and genuine concern, as well as great advice. I always value your input very highly indeed.

All the best to you

8

I forgot to mention that soon after that the arthritis spontaneously remitted and I haven't had a problem with it since.

As for your doctor, if it were me I would lie . And when dealing with doctors I always have to remind myself to be firm, and insist that they actually listen to me.

I don't get along well with most of them...but that's just me.