Good night and I hope you read this post tomorrow. First I want to say thanks for the replies.

Alcohol is an escape, for sure, It doesnt explain why the majority of the population who use it as an escape from time to time, do not develop an addiction. The answer is because they dont have the disease of addiction. I would be happy to share some good info on the genetics behind it.

Dread, I wanted to say a little more about something I touched on earlier. Before I started TSM my greatest fear was that the nal would block so much of the euphoria that I would end up cheating and drinking without it. I know myself, and I really wasn't trusting myself much at that point. After I experienced drinking on nal a few times I realised that lack of enjoying alcohol wasn't going to be a problem for me. In fact I then started to worry that TSM must not be working because I was still enjoying the alcohol. So worried, in fact that I started a thread on that subject.

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Mostly these fears were based on a lock of understanding of exactly how the process works. I thought it would have to feel unpleasant (or at least not pleasant) extinction to occur. But it just doesn't work that way. When you drink on nal it still feels good. You still get drunk. Sometimes really drunk. A lot of people notice pretty early on, though that even though they are getting drunk, their behavior is under better control that it was pre TSM. It's like your really drunk, but you know you're really drunk, and you just don't feel like doing that really stupid stuff anymore.

Soon after that a lot of people notice that they aren't going for that last drink anymore. Or not stopping off at the beer store on the way home in my case. Not that alcohol isn't enjoyable, because it very much is. It's just that the off-switch is beginning to operate properly, as it did before you became addicted.

Then after several months, and lots of ups and downs, the taste of alcohol starts to change for many of us. You start to notice how strong it is. Some people start to smell the alcohol in other people's drinks. My wine started to taste like paint thinner! For me this unpleasant alcohol phase lasted about three weeks or a month.

Then came the cure. I can tell you the minute and second I knew I was cured. It was't pleasant, and I didn't post about it right away. I had to come to some kind of peace with alcohol first, and that came soon thereafter.

Now I drink and enjoy it. I've switched to better brands of beer, but I'm drinking for the taste, and yes, the buzz. I just don't need another, and another, and another, and another anymore. The off switch is fixed.

Hope this helps - Fire

This is probably the best post I have read so far, and I mean no disrespect to all the other really good posts to me. I appreciate them all. But this one is the best.

{{{{It's like your really drunk, but you know you're really drunk, and you just don't feel like doing that really stupid stuff anymore.}}}} Thats an interesting statement and I dont know what to make of it.

{{{Then after several months, and lots of ups and downs, the taste of alcohol starts to change for many of us. You start to notice how strong it is. Some people start to smell the alcohol in other people's drinks. My wine started to taste like paint thinner! For me this unpleasant alcohol phase lasted about three weeks or a month. }}} I could get used to this. No biggie.


{{{Then came the cure. I can tell you the minute and second I knew I was cured. It was't pleasant, and I didn't post about it right away. I had to come to some kind of peace with alcohol first, and that came soon thereafter. }}}


This the the biggie right here. What do you mean it wasnt pleasant? What kind of peace do you mean? And what "behavior" is under control? I dont get this at all. I have my 14 beers a night and more on the weekends. Keep my job, still get some action, maintaining. Do you still get the same level of euphoria when you cut down. And the gradualness makes sense as well from a scientific background.

See thats what I dont understand. I get more than a buzz when I drink lots, like Im sure everybody here has. And if over time the Naltrexone has me not craving it, and what I crave is the euphoria and I know Im not getting as buzzed, I would probably stop taking it.[/quote]

dreadnought: You still get buzzed. There's something missing, but not enough for you to stop taking the medicine. It's really hard to describe what's missing. It's very subtle.

As for the term cure - I see that it's not a concern but I hope my message helps some.[/quote]


Thanks, and I just think Im going to have to try it and make a judgement about it. Its hard to understand over the interwebs an experience one has to try for onesself.[/quote]

Good Idea, give it a shot and see how it goes for you. I don't think anyone has dropped out of the method because they weren't getting the requisite buzz. When I spoke before about reduced cravings, and as rightly N101CS pointed out, this isn't a direct or immediate effect of naltrexone - it's something that occurs slowly over time as you progress with the method, by repeatedly drinking whilst on naltrexone. It happens behind the scenes and you aren't really aware of it as it happens so slowly. You said that you crave the euphoria - you will still be able to get euporia or a buzz when you are 'cured' but won't crave it, and then can make a rational decision as to whether you want to drink in order to achieve that feeling. I have friends that don't have an alcohol problem but still drink for the effect that it gives them. A lot of people take ecstasy recreationally for the euphoric effect, but aren't addicted. I think alcohol becomes a problem when people can't control their drinking, and it starts causing more problems than benefits, having a destructive effect on one's life. Bob said that he prefers the word "choice", and I think that's a good word for it. Success on TSM will give you back the choice as to when and if you drink.

Firebird, I've just cross-posted with you - you've hit the nail on the head. Great post.[/quote]


This is also runner up for the best post to me so far. I would say neck and neck with firebird in explaining it.

What I meant was that although I was "cured" from the standpoint of not drinking to excess, I was still having a very negative relationship with alcohol. I was disturbed by the taste of it, the smell of it, the thought of it, etc. After a couple of weeks of this, I decided to "push past" the disgust for alcohol. So I had a (small) bottle of wine, and drank it pretty fast. Afterward, as I lay down for sleep I became seriously nauseated. I'm not prone to nausea at all, and pre TSM I could drink 4 bottles like this one no problem, but after that one bottle of wine I hd to go vomit like I haven't done since I was a teenager.

As I knelt there drooling into the toilet, I thought to myself that this is what a "normal" person would be going through after pounding a bottle of wine like that. After that I started to work with the idea that my disgust was not with alcohol but with my abuse of alcohol. It's a subtle distinction, but one that allowed me to "come to peace" with alcohol.

The process doesn't stop there for me - I still have work to do. Stopping abusively drinking doesn't clean up 25 years worth of wreckage all by itself, but it sure clears the way for the able mind to do the work it needs to do.

This is absolutely my opinion too. I have seen friends with absolutely no family history of alcoholism, and a couple with a strong family history of zero interest in alcohol, become alcoholics after years of consistent drinking. I have seen the same thing with smoking with the group of us who all started around the same time at school twenty years ago. Looking back, you can pick out the ones who were probably genetically-predisposed, such as myself, in the speed with which addiction took hold, but all those who smoked for long enough did become addicted. And we certainly didn't become friends prior to our smoking 'adventures' due to genetic disposition.

Earlier I think it was suggested that people without the genetic disposition would never drink/smoke/take crack/etc enough in the first place to become dependent. This is absolute nonsense - weekend binge drinking is a social norm for whole swathes of the population here in the UK and daily drinking is acceptable, fashionable, or even the norm in many areas of society and walks of life. Similarly my friend works in the media where cocaine is rife, and anyone who takes it often enough DOES get into trouble with it. Whole communities who pick and chew the coco leaves in South America are addicted to them, yes? The same in the Middle East with the herb they chew there?

Just last week I watched a documentary about communities in the US that are swamped with crystal meth, where almost all the adults (and quite a few of the older kids) are addicts. And seeing the horrendous withdrawal symptoms they ALL went through when they couldn't smoke the stuff, it was impossible to tell who the people with the stronger genetic disposition were.

That is my opinion. Dreadnought what you are suggesting is quite clearly yours, I wish you'd present it as such rather than 'fact', however strongly you believe it.

As far as the term 'cured' goes TSM reaches the definition of it for me, or near enough that makes no difference.

I've noticed the same thing. I can count the times I've vomited (pre-TSM) because of alcohol on one hand. Once I started TSM on occasions a single glass of wine will make me puke. It just doesn't sit right sometimes. It's not the type of vomiting that accompanies poisoning with painful wretching and nausea - I'll just yak it up and go on. Very odd.

Yeah, that's exactly it, after I was done puking I felt fine (and sober).

Hmmmm - interesting this puking novelty.

I want to say to dreadnaught: ENOUGH ALREADY!!! Just get on the damn pill and take it an hour before you quaff those 14 beers and see what happens. Sheesh! :-)

Im not arguing about the definition of cure anymore. The genetics is not opinion. Its in several documented case studies, not what Ive observed. Most people dont pick up crystal meth. Statistics show that hard drugs/alcohol affect about 10-12% of the population. Its not my belief