Hello and welcome from me as well.



I believe the genetic component is what Nick was referring to here, and TSM allows us to essentially become more like a "normal drinker" or even abstinent because the cravings are no longer a problem. In the event that you choose to drink, taking a pill is not a problem, much like wearing a helmet before hopping on a motorycle. Drinking without Naltrexone would be dangerous, because the addiction can quickly be 're-learned'.

Continued dialog with soberrecovery admin:

From soberrecovery admin:

"Did you read anything I said?

This is the link I was referring to.
http://www.sinclairmethod.com/sinclairmethod.htm

The link you referred to is also against our rules.
We do not allow links to other blogs or forums in posts anywhere on the forum.

The posts I was referring to were not on your thread. They were posted by a group of new members each starting their own thread pushing the Sinclair Method.

This is trolling.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=703

I am not a member of AA or an addict or alcoholic. I don't care what program anyone wants to use. I have a daughter who has been sober for 14 years without a program and a son that is doing pretty well without a program.

We have rules for reasons from past history of many problems. You all come in as a group to "spread the word" and spam the forum with multiple threads. You need to take responsibility and follow our rules.

I wonder what would happen if we came to your forum as a group and posted multiple threads about AA."


My response:

"
MG,

Yes, I did read everything you said, I just didn't understand it. It frustrated me because I am not a troll and I meant no harm. I care as much about helping people as you do. I was only trying to help. The Sinclair Method saved my life and now I want try to help others as I was helped.

I don't know where the link http://www.sinclairmethod.com/sinclairmethod.htm
came from. I did not post it. That is not the community of Sinclair Method users. We have nothing to do with that site. We are located at www.thesinclairmethod.com.

We really all are very good people there.

If AA users came to our forum, we would welcome them and answer any questions.

The Sinclair Method is not for people who are currently abstinent and are happy with their treatment (I said this in my thread today). The Sinclair Method is a viable treatment only for those currently drinking. It has but one rule that must be followed without exception: IF you are going to drink, then drink only after taking Naltrexone one hour before you do drink.

We really should not be working against each other like this. Our goals are the same. AA is not going to work for everyone and neither is The Sinclair Method. Ultimately, the goal is to help alcoholics, yes?
"

I will say this, addiction is not a learned behavior. Its genetic fundamentally. Those with the genetic markers will "learn" the behaviour and those without wil never "learn" the behavoiur. Its why %90 of the population have no problem going out and having a couple of drinks and being done. If it was a learned behaviour, every would be a drunk.

Hi dreadnought, welcome to the community here



Yes you can, but eventually you will become readdicted, which would be madness in my opinion compared to continuing to take Nal (only before drinking) and remaining totally in control of your consumption.

Once you are 'cured' taking Nal every time is preventative medicine as far as I see it.



I believe it's both. Have there been any studies which show that people without genetic disposition to certain addictions will not develop physical dependency if they consume enough over time?

Read Eskapa's book if you truly want to know and discuss/debate rather than to argue. If you don't want to shell out twelve bucks for the book, there are links to some chapters on the board index. There's also a host of links to the studies supporting the method.

There is a genetic component to predisposition to alcoholism, but alcohol addiction is learned as that term is understood to apply to classical conditioning. It also can be learned by those without a genetic predisposition. I am an example that if one drinks hard enough, for long enough, addiction is possible without the gene.

WE ARE ALL FAMILIAR with the definition of "cure." It is, restored to a healthy, or non-pathological, state. That describes our brains when we are cured. IF we choose to drink after we are cured, we take naltrexone to prevent re-addiction. Your polio analogy is off the mark. You get a polio vaccine to prevent ever getting polio. (By the way, you can use naltrexone to keep from getting addicted to alcohol in the first place, but unlike a vaccine you must take it each time you drink because it does not remain active i the system like a vaccine). You can be cured of pneumonia and get it again.

If you want to learn about TSM, there is much information here. We welcome informed debate.

My opinion:

This guy from soberrovery.com is not looking for answers. He's trying to split hairs to validate his own prejudices. He's a 12 step Nazi out to refute TSM. Harsh words ? You're damned right. Let him keep trying - I am cured no matter what he or the other Nazis think, do, or say.

Tom
CURED WK 17

P.S. Notice I didn't sugget his IP address be blocked!

Tom, I'm inclined to agree with you. When he first posted I got suckered into thinking he was looking for information about TSM so I was happy to offer some answers to his questions. However, as the dialogue continued, it became obvious his only agenda is to discredit TSM. And by the way if you are reading this, "Mr. Alcoholism is purely genetic", I suggest you read up on how rats (who have no alcohol gene whatsoever) LEARNED to become addicted to alcohol, thus proving your theory about alcoholism being purely genetic to be as entirely incorrect as the rest of your assertions.

My final email communication with the SR administrator:

"I am not against you. I am open minded and fair. You have to understand what it looks like from my point of view with so many joining the forum to post about the Sinclair Method. We've had horrible experiences with groups who do this. Rational Recovery caused us to lose numerous members when they invaded like that years ago. Everyone always comes in with the attitude that we only support AA. The mods really try hard to moderate by using the forum rules and put their personal opinions aside most of the time. We are all human though. Some members only support AA and that is their right as long as they follow the forum rules.

With that said we don't allow links to other forums and we don't allow medication advice. That doesn't mean that you can't talk about the medication you are on, but you can't suggest medication or dosage to another member. We leave that in doctor's hands.

Also saying that you found the cure for alcoholism can be very dangerous for some of our members. Just as AA doesn't work for everyone, the Sinclair Method won't work for everyone. It's dangerous to lead others into thinking they can learn to moderate. I realize you said it is not for those who quit drinking, but my son almost died thinking he could moderate after a year of sobriety. Most alcoholics wish for that and it can be just the information that gets them back out there.

There are many things I believe in that I won't post about because it might harm others. Just recently I tried using electronic cigarettes, but I wouldn't post about it on the nicotine forum. I don't think that would be responsible for those who have already quit.

I will talk to the mods about lifting your ban and replacing your thread. I know the main concern the moderators had was the remark about being cured and able to control your drinking even if it's true for you.

Thank you,
MG"

My response:

"MG,

Thank you very much for reconsidering.

I understand your concern with groups coming into your community and causing problems. It only makes sense that you would error on the safe side.

You have my word that I will respect soberrecovery rules. I will also talk with those over at thesinclairmethod.com about respecting the rules at SR as well and to be mindful of what they say when coming over. We are a small group and most of us have been talking for months now.

I will always try to answer openly and honestly about The Sinclair Method. My intention wasn't to stand on a rooftop and start yelling that I had the cure for alcoholism, I just want to start a a thread saying this method worked for me. If any of the moderators have issue with anything I, or any of us Sinclair user say; please PM the person and tell them. Like I said, we are all good people and are really just looking to help.

Thank you again for talking with me about this MG. I look forward to being a valuable member of the SR community.

Hi dreadnought
I am curious about your apparent need for certainty and definition about this issue of whether you can be defined as 'cured' or not. Are you afraid to let in new possibilities? I know when one has been hopeless it is scary to let yourself hope for success because maybe you might fail again. I have decided to view your questions as legitimate rather than mischevious! My aunt was diagnosed 10 years ago with late onset diabetes(often arising from a genetic predisposition)- she was told she needed to drastically change her diet and lifestyle or face medication and serious complications. She decided to loose weight and exercise and within a few months her blood sugar levels went back to those of a 'normal' non diabetic person. But that didn't mean she was cured of diabetes- if she goes back to being an overweight sugar junky who doesn't exercise she will end up with severe problems again! But she has lived a healthy life free of diabetic medication.
anyway all i am saying is why not open yourself up to explore new ideas and follow lena's advice- lets face it either we are on to something here or its all one big mad cyber conspiracy

Q -- I really don't think we need a lecture from you about minding our manners when we are off this board. I think it's presumptious of you to say something like that to the admin of the other board. This thing is out of hand.