OK, Q. I'm starting to converse with you over there. I opened it up for folks to ask questions. Let's see how alive the conversation gets. You got it going much much better than I did on the original thread.

In reading some of the responses, it's so very sad to see those tired, worn-out, empty sayings being repeated like that one about "the first drink". I couldn't let that one slide. My "first drink" after months of TSM is now my hardest drink, rather than what it was in the olden days before we knew better and have been conditioned to almost ignore.

We'll see how long we last with a method that actually works.

Bob

long live the debate this is a learning oportunity for all of us . the thing I didn't like I said before but good things were said over there like sfgirl's questions and socialismislost's points I liked .

Can you believe those people over at soverrecovery.com banned us and deleted that entire, very informative, thread? I did nothing but try to be truthful and provide useful information to others.

That is simply unbelievable.

Their own site rules very clearly state that no one will be banned without a warning. I received none. It is very clear that these people have an agenda and are very closed minded.

Sad really.

Q

Yep, the thread was deleted, and my posts are disappearing. My ban is now inevitable.

Bob

The problem is they ban your IP address, which means you can't just come back in under a different username.

I came back on today from my office LAN, which is under a different IP address than the one I was banned from last night, at home.

Strange that they are banning me and no one else. I've done nothing to violate any of the sites terms of use.

Q

And I was truthful and obeyed their rules. Thankfully we will not stoop to their methods.

All this just to inform people about a method that actually works! I never believed it would and yet it did. And I get banned from a site that purports to aid those seeking sobriety. Insane is it not?

Bob

edit: mean thoughts removed by Firebird

I was wondering what took them so long. Heretics have historically been burned at the stake, so I reckon you got off easy.

As an indicator of the "reality on the ground" - it's no wonder that TSM is virtually unheard of.

This whole endeavor reveals a true tragedy: TSM, the only real cure for alcoholism, is going to be forcefully rejected by society at every turn. The vast majority of the medical establishment doesn't even know about it, and when informed, reject it out of hand. Almost no alcoholics know about it. And the institutions charged with treating us have a financial interest in making sure TSM fails. And the alcoholics have all been brainwashed by AA dogma and won't even consider TSM. It's all very sad.

Virtually all treatment facilities cling to the unscientific AA-based philosophy. And this is what I hate most about AA: that it's real focus is a "spiritual awakening." I am not in the market for a spiritual makeover, I just want to quit drinking like an alcoholic. I have done some reading about AA and its founders at The Orange Papers. That scathing rebuke of AA really hit me in this respect, namely, its theory that the founders of AA were really trying to save people's souls as evangelical Christians and that AA (and all of the related groups that followed) is really just a pretext to save people's souls. Which would explain why there is all the emphasis on "taking a fearless moral inventory", admitting sin and seeking salvation from a higher power. It all makes sense to me: why is the focus on admitting sin and turning life over to a higher power even applicable in the support groups that are for family members of addicts as opposed to addicts themselves? As someone who is not religious, that whole AA philosophy goes over with me about as well as my last case of the flu. And the fact that it is now the biggest obstacle to the acceptance of TSM really burns me up.

Shocking.

I regret not saving copies of the thread (as web pages) there to my desktop while it was up, then they could have been posted on here for the world to see what that site's about. Perhaps we're soon going to need a thread to 'name and shame' the charlatans out there (and I can only assume that is what they are if they ban talk of a medication that has a scientifically proven 75%+ rate of CURING alcoholism.)

http://www.soberrecovery.com ??? I would but it's far too serious for that, so