Sounds like the "extinction burst" -- increased drinking that occurs soon after starting TSM, brought on by the fact your mind wants the endorphin rush that the nal is blocking and so it says, "Drink more! Drink more!" It's scary and frustrating but it's evidence TSM is working!

Mind you, "extinction burst" is Nick's theory, but I buy it. I have a theory I call "permission to drink", whereby, once told to drink as we normally do, we stop fighting cravings and let 'er rip. The two may be at work together.

Actually "Extinction Burst" is a common theme when dealing with behavorial extintion.

Here is a pretty good analogy that Ill cut and paste:
"My favorite example is the elevator button. Let's say you ride the same elevator every day. You get in, you push the button for your floor, and you're rewarded by the doors closing and the elevator taking you to your destination. One day you get in and push the button, and nothing happens. Do you immediately say, "Oh, this must not work anymore, I'll just take the stairs to the 11th floor"? Or do you push the button again? And again? And harder? And faster? And in special sequences? That's the extinction burst." Cut and paste from an internet resource.

Enwikipeida has a blurb on "Extinction Burst"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_(psychology)
"While extinction, when implemented consistently over time, results in the eventual decrease of the undesired behavior, in the near-term the subject might exhibit what is called an extinction burst. An extinction burst will often occur when the extinction procedure has just begun. This consists of a sudden and temporary increase in the response's frequency, followed by the eventual decline and extinction of the behavior targeted for elimination.

Take, as an example, a pigeon that has been reinforced to peck an electronic button. During its training history, every time the pigeon pecked the button, it will have received a small amount of bird seed as a reinforcer. So, whenever the bird is hungry, it will peck the button to receive food. However, if the button were to be turned off, the hungry pigeon will first try pecking the button just as it has in the past. When no food is forthcoming, the bird will likely try again... and again, and again. After a period of frantic activity, in which their pecking behavior yields no result, the pigeon's pecking will decrease in frequency.

The evolutionary advantage of this extinction burst is clear. In a natural environment, an animal that persists in a learned behavior, despite not resulting in immediate reinforcement, might still have a chance of producing reinforcing consequences if they try again. This animal would be at an advantage over another animal that gives up too easily."

Makes total sense. After reading many members, cured and being cured, it seem alot of had that big push up in AL levels just before the drop off to extinction or being cured. And it would seem that this point is where most people get the most discouraged. Who knows, in humans there may be a few extinction bursts before the end.

Quite useful. Nick has mentioned another thing it might explain: Why those of us with a longer history of alcohol addiction or higher numbers than those in Sinclair's studies are taking lnger to get cured. Makes sense to me.

Thanks guys, it could be an extinction burst I guess, but is too close to my old pattern of getting carried away sometimes (sometimes? ha! often, more like!) to call yet. It might be interesting to look back with hindsight, but I guess at the moment I should just try not to overthink things too much.

17 UK units again yesterday - a bit of a shocking weekend. Firmly back to my worst old ways of getting way too hammered one night and then needing a lot the next day to get through. At least it was less than the previous day's overindulgence, hopefully less again today, then I can console myself that this time the snowball's running down the hill still but diminishing in size (if that makes sense!)

Because I had such a boozy weekend I didn't manage to get back to writing about some previous posts which I regret. So, a big 'thank you' to Nick for explaining more about the post I'd misunderstood, and giving the context and personalisation which made everything crystal clear. I couldn't agree with you more about not judging other alcoholics. Personally I guess it took me a long time to 'get there' - to really understand my nature, that I have the exact same problem as a homeless guy sitting in the park with his bottle. The only thing that separates us is, for now, that I am much, much luckier in my circumstances.

Those circumstances see me able to afford Nal and private doctors for TSM right now. If this works for me (as it has already, and continues to, for many other people here) I can see myself campaigning over the issue of 'Nal for the masses' in the future. I'm already pretty disgusted

I hope that misunderstanding's (well in fact, from our PMs I'm really happy to think I can say it IS for sure!) behind us now, and that you also see the value in having the clarification here for anyone who might look at my story - this thread - in the future.



That is my hope, absolutely, hapful! Nothing would give me greater pleasure than helping others in the future

Absolutely 8, ancient history! And I will be right by your side campaigning for THE CURE after I am cured. I remain outraged at the medical community for ignoring this proven, simple, safe, cheap alternative to traditional, highly ineffective, "spirituality-based" treatment for a medical problem. (OK, cutting myself off now from yet another anti-AA rant. )

Actually Lena, I wish I could take credit for the "extinction burst" theory because I think it's entirely correct and very useful to explain why some of us TSMers have a surge in drinking that exceeds pre-TSM levels. However, Hapful was the first to mention it here. I just immediately jumped all over it because it makes total sense. See the little pigeon, used to getting some food from pecking the lever, peck wildly when the food is cut off. Sounds a lot like we TSMers when we start tossing them down wildly after we don't get the endorphin rush we are so used to.

It is outrageous Nick. Today I'm going to be right in the thick of a Nal vs traditional methods controversy, no doubt. I have to return to my abstinence program because I want to see the therapist there, and will have to explain to the program leaders (all incredible people who have given me so much, but all caught up in the traditional way) what I'm doing. I'm expecting quite a fuss.

Even harder is facing my former colleagues on the program. I may have chosen this path for myself, but I'm not ready yet to tempt them back to drinking with news of what I'm doing. When I am sure I am on my way to being cured, yes, but not just a couple of weeks in. One guy I'm very fond of, who's doing SO well (SO far!) would not be a candidate for Nal as his liver's right on the edge. Just for his sake I feel like I should be lying that I've just relapsed to drinking...very tough

More to write later if I can get on before I've had my Nal and a beer or two. After that it's impossible to write. 12 UK units the day before yesterday, and the same last night, with further feelings that drink isn't doing anything for me beyond relieving anxiety.

<edit> I really don't like the chemical smell of my skin right now, and am sweating more than usual which is horrible. Will it always be like that?

Stay strong confronting the traditionalists. Keep in mind that truth is on your side: their method doesn't work. NIAA estimates a ten to 15% success rate for AA and that, I believe, includes "success" after multiple failures and results in a lot of miserable "white knucklers." 5% is probably more accurate for the AA "success rate" versus over 80% for TSM.

I haven't heard of this chemical smell you are experiencing so I'm sorry, I have nothing to offer there.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot Nick I didn't see my peers today, just the therapist, who was wonderful; very interested in the book and the science, and very understanding. She sympathised with my concerns of attending the group, where everyone else aims for abstinence, but quite rightly pointed out I have just as much right to support in my recovery from addiction as anyone else, and whatever my method. Watch this space on that one!

The smell is hard to describe, but is getting to me, and I've had it from day one. I have the same unpleasant taste in my mouth. It's very chemical and a bit like burning, but then I also smoke, and the smell of the smoke in the air and also on my hand afterwards is very strong - so that part may be from that?

Thanks WTE! The smell's become less noticable which is good, but's still there. It's not so much about getting clean I don't think; it's there when I sweat (which is more on the Nal) and in my mouth. This medicine seems really physically potent to me, it's like it's in every cell of my body right now. A good sign I hope, though!

Just a quick update. For my own records, it was 13 UK units on the 19th (which I felt was too much the next day) followed by 14 on the 20th. Last night things went absolutely bonkers and I managed 18 UK units in the evening, and probably would have kept on going if the beers hadn't run out. Back to my bad old ways! The alcohol doesn't have the same endorphin-delivery, of course, but I still have the urge to get blasted. I'm positive about every other aspect of TSM right now, but this desire of mine to get obliterated...well, I have no idea how this factors into things.

Drinking for me today is all about the anxiety. I've started early again and the beers are flying down Will have to try not to get too carried away and hope tomorrow's a better day.