remember out of those 12% they are all "self reporting" that they are taking the meds. this is an outpatient, non-clinical setting. there is some lying going on there, we don't know how much but there absolutely is some.

NALTREXONE + DRINKING = CURE

regards,
Tom


UNITS CRAVINGS DESIRE AF DAYS
PRE- 02/2006 100-200 10 10 0 ====> Began AA for the 15th time
PRE -TSM 50 - 150 10 10 0 ====> I was heading back to my old ways

WEEK UNITS Cravings AF DAYS
1 44 5 2
2 40 5 2
3 40 5 3
4 31 5 4
5 20 2 5
6 33 1 2
7 44 1 3
8 45 1 3
9 33 1 4
10 52 1 1
11 33 1 3
12 37 2 3
13 20 2 4
14 17 1 5
15 15 0 4
16 10 0 5 =========> on vacation. ten bars within walking distance
17 6 0 6 =========> on vacation for 4 of the 7 days

CURED WK 17

Hi -- I would hate to see anyone misled by this topic into wondering whether TSM will work for them. I am beginning to believe this topic may take on a life of its own and lead to misinformation.

Zman, you have posted six times on MWO plus five times here (I deleted one as it was basically a duplicate), in two days, essentially asking this same question.

I think it would be helpful to note that Eskapa did not use the word "sweet tooth" in describing what the early research show about the 10 % for whom TSM does not work: "There is evidence that they tend to be people who do not have close relatives who are alcoholics, who do not like very strong sweet solutions, and -- according to Project COMBINE -- who have a particular form of opioid receptor." Eskapa, p. 51 (bold mine) Note he says "and", which I take to mean they possess all three qualities. Plus, "do not like very strong sweet solutions" is different than "do not have a sweet tooth."

I think the sweet-tooth issue is getting overblown. Here in part is yet another response I posted on MWO:

Zman -- You don't sound hysterical but perhaps a bit preoccupied with some small-odds potential catastrophes. I repeat: The sky is not falling.

Anyone starting TSM would say, "Wow, if I follow one simple rule (take naltrexone one hour before each time I drink) then there's a ninety percent chance I'll be cured."

bob3d over on our board takes benzos and is cured. Eskapa posted a couple of times about benzos not being helpful to TSM because they impair the body's ability to make its own GABA and alcohol is a GABA agonist. People wildly overreacted and started saying things like, "Oh great, I invested my hopes and my time and now he says it will not work for me." Eskapa never said that. He said it wouldn't help and could hamper TSM. We are finding anecdotally that benzo users are progressing at about the same rate as the non-benzo-users.

I never talked to Eskapa about the sweet tooth issue past mentioning it because it was of little to no concern to me. I did mention I had no family history of alcoholism and he mentioned there was a name for that but I forget what it is. It was probably all of two sentences because I did not consider it much of a big deal.

I am a moderator over at the TSM bb and no one deleted your post. I don't know what happened to it, but no one deleted it. I did delete the third time you posted the sweet tooth question on the same day but only because it was repetitive and we are a small board.

These red herring issues like sugar and GABA do not merit a lot of hand wringing. If you don't want to do TSM that is entirely your choice but at the risk of repeating myself, it has a 90% success rate for the compliant. I'll take those odds over AA any day, plus I get to use the word "cured."

[Edited by Minneapolisnick on 8/20. I should not have called into question the motives of the author. That portion of the post has been removed and I apologize if I offended anyone.]

TSM works for 80% who try it -- up to 90% who follow the protocol. There have been very limited studies and theories offered about the limited few who it does not work for, all contained in a few sentences on page 51 of Eskapa's book. This small group includes people who do not have alcoholism in the family AND who don't like a very strong sweet solution AND who have certain type of opiate receptors. This is complete speculation and unproven theory about the commonalities of the unlucky few who TSM doesn't work for and by no means leads to the false conclusion that TSM will not work for you if you don't have a sweet tooth.

I guess I am not following what the issue is, exactly.

When I was a drinker, I didn't like sweets if I could get alcohol. When I was in AA, they suggested having cookies when you had a craving. I faithfully did this and eventually despised cookies because my brain wanted alcohol, not Oreos. Now that I don't have much desire for alcohol, I still don't like Oreos, but I have developed a love for ice cream. I don't desire sweets per se, in fact my beverage of choice now is unsweetened ice tea. I think I enjoy the ice cream so much now because it has become my end-of-day reward, not getting blitzed on AL as in the past.

After I re-read my above post, I surmise that the sweet theory may come from AA dogma, rather than scientific facts. At best, it appears anecdotal.

Bob

Well said. Enough said.

I hope this thread dies on the vine.