Yikes!!!!!!

Elfern, I honestly thought I was AGREEING with what you posted.

I re-read my post and it still seem that way to me as the author but the proof is in the putting.

Elfern I am so sorry.

Lena , I totally accept what you say , you know your intentions and I believe you .
I'm sorry too for biting . Let's just let it go, this just does happen . Pardon me for my touchiness and misreadings

I think this probably happened because of a strong attachment I had to Rat Rec
and one does tend to get a bit "programmed " by these programes we invest so much in . On balance i feel ambiguous about them because of all the selfishness stuff is very hard to swallow but their take against powerlessness and
will to smash the addiction impressed me . However even that gets superceded by the science of tsm .


KK and Nick and Bob thanks for your help there in trying to smooth out . Of course you're right we're here to help each other and I'm very grateful for that and to you here .
Agree big Bob about your live chat point !
By the way Nick I saw your current concerns on your thread . I'm sorry to hear about the GF but cheered your old friend notes the difference .
I think you'd be right to go for a couple of AF's when the alc goes on the rise I think
we need that because we just get so flattened by its effects , you'll feel better for it and fresher . As you, my binge pattern tended to dissolve accross the week and AF's reduce with the whole intake creeping up . And it's happened again in wk 19 !

All the best
My apologies

Whew. Glad that's behind us.

It's actually the Rational Recovery guy I was referring to as foolish -- jumping to the unfounded assumption that TSM could never work because alcohol addicts would not take their nal and go for the buzz instead. I remember a lot of people on MyWayOut asking that in the "early days" (this past January).

The folly behind the "people will stop taking naltrexone in order to get a buzz" theory is that almost all of us still get a buzz while drinking on nal. A different buzz, but a buzz nonetheless. I have never even considered not taking the nal in order to enhance my buzz even while noticing that during a HUGE trigger, I noticed I wasn't getting knockout drunk on nal. I'm quite confident that I could get BLASTED on nal if I chose to take multiple shots. Luckily for me, I haven't had a big enough urge to even try that since starting TSM.

Elf,

I have to chime in here since it was post that stirred your thoughts.

I can assure you that drinking without my NAL was a huge mistake. I've worked so hard to just ride this out until it works for me that I can't believe I was so careless that night. It only proved that I am still powerless over alcohol in trigger situations.

I still get "buzzed" on NAL, meaning for me, I feel drunk and outside myself. I am not a happy drunk, I still passout and if I push it I still black out.

The night without my NAL was different. I was out of control after about 10 units (which is my standard night not out of control) I was staggering, slurred speech, said really stupid things I don't remember and then passed out for a few hours and woke up and did more stupid things. This is the way I acted on 20 and above units in a session. The next day I felt like crap with a pre TSM hangover. It was not the same buzz I got before TSM. I don't know if it was because I've been on it for 13 weeks and it's still kind of still with me.

For the rest of the week I was in a tail spin and spike my units up to more than my pre TSM. Was this because of the one night? Not sure... Not testing it again ever.

This week I'm actually below my units so far. I've drank every night but it feels different. I don't panic if I run out before I'm ready to go to bed. My buzz is gone. I still get drunk but it's not the same. This gives me a glimmer of hope. I know this might just be a honeymoon phase and I can accept that, but even if so.. I hope....

providence , you poor soull , you had a rotten time there , i'm glad it's better this week .
I think it's probably a bit more complex than my having only been influenced by your post .
I have always had a rather odd relation with rules and limits . it all reminds me somewhat of Edgar Allen Poe's "imp of the perverse " the idea that if you walk along a cliff top some little mind bandito has to suggest "well what if you...." simply because it's possible , then it might get obssessive .
When I was young I was frightened by the image of a skull on a paperback book my father was reading ,and used to hide it under a pile of books every night in the furthest corner of the house and try not to think of it , if you try not to think of something it comes in through the back door . So then I got the idea that if i washed my hands I'd be saved from the skull's intentions , and then if i touched anything going back to bed I'd have to wash my hands again, this routine would keep me up at night until I finally got put in a kids hospital to sort it out .
Well , I'm not so nutty nowadays the thought that I might stop NAl got stirred up
some anxiety , and truth is I feel very solid about never quitting it , it's just a weird bandito playing up .

I reckon your not taking it that night probably did set you off kilter a few days , but
that's all it did .You're over it now . keep up the good work . Be sure to have NAl to hand and in purse etc . All the best .

I forgot to take Nal one night when I was on vacation in Michigan. I cannot tell you how much anxiety I felt - in the midst of people, a 2nd glass of wine, appetizers, the sunset, suddenly I was retracing my steps...did I take it??...surely I did...it's a habit...but when??...then realized, nope, I didn't & really too late now. ****!!!!!

I didn't feel any difference!! UGH - I drank at least 10 glasses of wine, like I did every night, and was no drunker or worse than ever, I just felt GUILTY!! Like that one night was going to undo all the NOTHING I have felt so far!! LOL

I actually just thought, ok, one night is not going to mean a hill of beans in this process - just don't forget ever again. And I haven't - today I actually got my son to come bring me my pills. I had left them at home & was working...seemed kind-of extreme, but I kind-of get panicky thinking about drinking now w/o NAL. Just don't want to be "uncovered" -

Anyway, elfrern, again, hijacking" your thread here, we also have to remember and 'fess up to the fact that most of us are drinking when we post here at night. We may get all riled up or super-sensitive. I have learned not to hit the send button if my adrenalin is up for whatever reasons on here. Don't get me wrong - just take stuff with a grain of salt after about...oh...happy hour?? :-)

Houtx
I will be vacationing in Michigan next week as well! (Going for 2 wks -- I'm from there but live down south now). Looking forward to the cooler weather.
I've decided to carry nal in my purse at all times. I put the whole bottle in there. I always know where it is when I'm home, but if I happen to be out I have it on hand.
But don't worry, you'll be fine after one night. It takes many more weeks of that to undo what you have already accomplished.

Hi Elfern,
I am very new to the sinclair method. I have infact thought several times about not taking the nal. Over the weekend, I totally screwed up on purpose and took the nal with my first drink. I didn't feel any different, but somewhere inside me, I wanted to feel the same warm buzz. On Sunday, I took my nal only 20 minutes before my first drink. My cravings were so intense that I just couldn't wait the hour. I've decided to take the nal much earlier now. If take it well before my cravings hit, I will be covered when they do. As I understand, the nal is good for 24 hours. It's the only solution that I have been able to come up with the fight those "imps" in my head. I've only been on solidly for a few weeks, so I hope that stuff gets better. I think that I'm still under the incorrect impression that I can moderate my drinking. I know I can't. I've also started to carry the nal in my purse (great suggestion by another member). I know this post is a little late, but know that I also feel the imps in my head, but the good news is we are committed to taking that pill.

Hiya ABNYC,
It seems that you mentioned two different things there . Not being able to tolerate very strong cravings and wait out the hour . Well for that your solution to take it earlier sounds good ,but personally I think the NAL gives best cover for 12 hours
and try to have my drinking finished by then , if you can manage that do it too.
Later this will be less of a problem as the intensity of craving goes down and you'll find waiting an hour easier . But in worst case just wait it is only an hour small fry
compared to the torture abstinence can cause ??
The other imp thing I think firstly needs a dose of sound reason , get clear that however much we feel we drink for the buzz it is in fact the endorphin re enforcement that goes on "behind the scene " it's not at a conscious level we don't feel this consciously but need to know it , it helps .
That idea of mind banditos is mentioned in the "tao of sobriety " , it goes on about about how all manner of little voices vie for attention in our minds ( not just with the mentally ill !) and goes on to suggest electing a "manager" to take control that has your own best interests at heart . However crooked or odd this may sound at bottom it's just saying that the part of you that takes decisions doesn't heed the
voices , sure hear them , recognize them , even "thank" them because they're doing their best but are a bit insecure but you decide in your best interests .
A fun game !
So if we consider alcohol and what it has done to us and then still hear suggestions like don't take NAL....? We have to discount them as daft . Don't worry about these imps , I've no intention of obeying but can't deny they exist . ALso they are much , much weeker than pre tsm .
If this is early days believe me that you will accept a changed buzz it is different but
I don't know why I accept it now as OK and hate the alternative . Alcohol will progressively loose it 's hold , so do stick with this and keep posting .