Now that I am actually keeping an accurate track of how many drinks I'm consuming, I have concluded that my estimate of "50ish" pre-TSM drinks per week is probably a drastic underestimate. I say this because for the past two weeks I've been hovering close to my estimated pre-TSM levels of 50ish per week (42,49) and I can safely say my recent consumption was considerably less than pre-TSM. Since starting TSM I've only had a couple of days where I was useless from a hangover, whereas I used to be worthless about two days per week on average. Also, have you ever noticed how TINY drinks are when you are using shot glasses to actually measure the booze? Now when I pour my drinks on nal, I always make them doubles (I can't even taste the alcohol in a single-shot drink) and am finding doubles are alarmingly weak. I think it's safe to say that my drinks pre-nal were triples at minimum and probably closer to quadruples. Also, before starting TSM I used to loosely jot down the number of drinks I had, but I had two categories: one through nine (accurate) and "10+", where I would get plastered and lose track of the actual number of drinks consumed, hence the "+" after the 10. When calculating my pre-TSM numbers I concluded that on those 10+ nights I was having around 15 or so, roughly three nights per week, hence my "50ish" estimate of my pre-TSM levels. (In addition to the three binge nights, I frequently had a few days of just a couple of drinks per week, hence the 50ish figure). However, I am now discovering that on nights when I have ten measured drinks, I'm not getting drunk at all and am usually waking up hangover free, even on the nal, which makes hangovers worse. So, long story short, I am pretty sure my guesstimate of my pre-TSM drinking levels has been drastically underestimated. This has HUGE implications for charting progress under TSM. I'm willing to bet many of us here, while attempting to estimate the number of drinks we were consuming pre-TSM, substantially underestimated how much we previously drank. The fact that we routinely lie to doctors, family members and often ourselves, further exacerbates the likelihood that our Pre-TSM estimated drinking habit is probably considerably higher than we list on our signature. This should be taken into consideration when we are charting our progress and attempting to create an accurate accounting of our actual decrease in consumption. The chances are very good that while we are accurately tracking our current consumption, we are comparing it to an underestimated pre-TSM consumption level, and thus are underestimating our actual level of progress under TSM.

That seems very likely, especially if one were drinking in some variable way, which to my mind would definitely include self-poured drinks of all sorts. I might drink a bottle of excellent scotch a year, but I know that the "glug glug" of pouring those drinks are wildly variable depending on mood, occasion, whether it's accompanied by a 'splash' of water or a couple of fingers worth, etc.

In the case of beer or even wine - if one always finishes what one starts - then maybe the count might possibly be more dependable as being less dependent on estimation or careful measurement.

Since I haven't started yet (great news on that front -- it will happen soon!) I've been wondering if the effects of TSM are not really to be seen for *months* then maybe considering the first few weeks or months might be just as valid for establishing a baseline?

I'm hoping this line of thinking will help me keep expectations realistic.

PV said, "Since I haven't started yet (great news on that front -- it will happen soon!) I've been wondering if the effects of TSM are not really to be seen for *months* then maybe considering the first few weeks or months might be just as valid for establishing a baseline?"

This is not accurate. The EFFECTS of TSM are often immediate. Many of us immediately decrease our consumption when starting TSM -- the "honeymoon effect" -- only to subsequently increase consumption. More importantly, there are many positive and immediate effects of TSM: more controlled drinking, less obnoxious behavior, fewer blackouts and hangovers, etc. People are using the term "months" when referring to THE CURE -- i.e., being completely free of the alcohol addiction.

Since consumption on TSM usually drops immediately, I don't think we can use this period to establish the baseline.

I agree WTE, numbers alone do not tell the whole story. My life has been completely turned upside down almost immediately after starting TSM. I haven't embarrassed myself once; GF and friends all notice I'm no longer a big drinker; I never blackout conversations; I never act like a drunken fool, etc., etc. Even if my numbers stayed where they are now, I would declare TSM a huge success. But I'm greedy and am looking for the ultimate prize: THE CURE.

good post Nick

As a spirits drinker I can use the rate of bottle consumption to help estimate the amount I drink. I did this before - maybe a year or two ago and estimated the 70-ish. I honestly thought I was at a similar rate of consumption, but since I've started I've realised (probably not too surprisingly) that it had crept up and was certainly 80+, maybe even as high as 90 (UK units). I'm almost done with my third week of TSM and my consumption has dropped a lot - even though two of my regular AF days (where I'm busy at something else all evening) haven't materialised for various reasons, AND I've had more opportunity in a social setting to drink a lot.

Maybe it is the Naltrexone, or maybe the psychological effect of having committed to tackling the problem, but I'm definitely drinking less, I'm way down on cravings and I've even done some sensible things several times recently while drinking (e.g. deciding to stop and go to bed! ) that I wouldn't easily have done before

I don't have any AF days. Looking forward to a day that statement will also be incorrect.

Congratulations on getting the nal, PV, your first AF day is on its way!

I agree WTE, numbers alone do not tell the whole story. My life has been completely turned upside down almost immediately after starting TSM. I haven't embarrassed myself once; GF and friends all notice I'm no longer a big drinker; I never blackout conversations; I never act like a drunken fool, etc., etc. Even if my numbers stayed where they are now, I would declare TSM a huge success. But I'm greedy and am looking for the ultimate prize: THE CURE. [/quote]
Right there with you, exactly my story, still drinking but never over the top, no embarrassment, so I agree that is a success

I noticed in the first week that I still got a buzz when drinking, but my response to alcohol was much more sane and in control. Except for a couple of occasions, when I've had a huge negative event (trigger), that has remained true to date. This effect should be emphasized, perhaps as much or more than the eventual cure.

And Nick, I agree completely that most of us likely underestimated how much we drank. I assumed it was 2 bottles of wine per day, with a couple more thrown in during the week for good measure. But honestly, I drank two bottles of wine at home almost every day - and went out and had 3-5 more five or six days a week. So my 70-80 upw were probably more like 90-100, if I'd kept accurate count. It's safe to say I may well have averaged 3 bottles a day, at 5 units per bottle, for a total consumption of 105 upw. In that case, my drinking is actually down by nearly half!

This really is not blowing smoke - I think that since we're all drinking so much less, and maintaining control of our senses so much better, we're able to look back with a clearer, more subjective point of view than previously. Let's face it, though we all knew we had a problem, most of us had some degree of denial regarding just how much trouble we were in! Since we weren't able to quit, we would tell ourselves it wasn't as bad as it actually was. So the numbers in our signatures are misleading, yes? I'm going to re-do mine to more accurately reflect where I was pre-Sinclair.

I have a favorite wine glass. I routinely fill it to the top. I was counting that as a drink until I decided to measure the amount in the glass. I almost fell over - it was 12 ozs.! I don't drink every day, so in mind (in denial and way uniformed), I was thinking I was basically within the accepted limits - maybe a liitle over. What an idiot. Anyway, now I know and can't fool myself anymore, which is a good thing.
I'm ordering my Nal today.
Today, as an American, is THE 4th of July. Lots of parties, lots of booze. I have no illusion that I will not drink, but the 12oz thing is also going to buzzing in my head and I am hoping will keep me a little more in control.
Knowledge is power.
You guys are great. I love this site.
Lucy D

How right you are Lucy!!!

OMG the way we deceive ourselves! I, too, had a system of deceipt as to how much I drank. I used to fill to the brim one of those small wine glasses they give out at tastings. I figured it was just "half" of a drink.

When I finally measured it, it was 8 U.S. ounces (250 ml). At an average Al content of 13%, THAT'S 3.25 UNITS!

Isn't that supposed to be the max for a female per day??!!!

And then my second favorite for a summer drink was to blend some fresh fruit, ice, and cream for a "smoothie". It didn't count that I also added 2 SHOTS OF VODKA! ....simply because I rationalized that the volume of the rest of the drink was healthy enough to offset the Al.
DUH!

What a beguiling, illusory disease!!!! Sure feels good to have ya'll to communicate with. I was raised under the stigma of alcoholism and that because of it I am a worthless individual. Thanks to my disovery of TSM from the book Healing the Addicted Brain, I now know differently.