Lena's Latest Weekly Progress Thread

lena · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:07 pm **Posts:** 929

Potato and all -- Thanks for asking. Just wrote my post and lost it!!!! Forgot to copy efore I hit the button.

Short version: Mid-way thru week 3 resuming, down to around 4-6/day and craving 5. That's a nearly 50% reduction from pre-TSM (8-12/day and craving 10).

I've experimented with pushing down consumption by waiting an hour or so to start and it has worked for the most part. I also seem able to make a reasoned decision to quit at some point in the evening, whereas before it was no question that once I started it was drink drink drink 'til bedtime.

I think I'll call this Week 12 because I nearly finished Week 8 in March and got about 10 days nal in May between surgeries.

I'm getting well and will recover fully, but it will take time.

minneapolisnick · **Joined:** Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm **Posts:** 1793

Good to hear from you Lena! The more I think about this "pushing down" issue that has been raised by so many people, including SR, the more I'm feeling a little conflicted on the subject. Up until now, I have made NO effort to stop drinking after I start. But there have been several times during my usual weekend binges that I'm on say, 6 or 7, and I could absolutely take it or leave it. To date, I have just continued my way up to 10 or 15 and it really does seem it's more out of "habit" than any craving: that's what I do on Friday night -- I start drinking at 7 and usually don't stop until after midnight. Now the simple answer to this dilemma is, "Drink as you always did before" and let extinction run its course. But I think SR may be onto something. The next time I have several drinks and feel that I can take or leave the next round, I think I'm going to make a minor effort to stop. As in, "I could take or leave this next drink, I'm consciously trying to reduce my dependence, so I think I'll pass." It just makes intuitive sense to me that once you reach the "take it or leave it stage" on nal, you should leave it, so long as you don't really have the craving. I'm going to try it.

What say you, LENA, or anyone else?

LaBear · **Joined:** Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:09 am **Posts:** 437

Nick, I certainly agree. I have been doing that on occasion also and I find it helpful. We are still taking the naltrexone and still drinking and killing off receptors so why not?

lena · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:07 pm **Posts:** 929

I posted this April 25, after there were several posts pondering this issue. Here's what Eskapa and Sinclair have to say:

Quote:

Cutting back consciously is not part of the Sinclair Method, but does that mean we should avoid trying to cut back? Many of us want to do so for our own reasons.

A few weeks ago Dr. Eskapa replied to a post here in which he mentioned there's no harm in trying to use effort to taper down as long as we are able to manage the cravings.

I've noticed that, since then, there has been much discussion here about "trying" to cut back or have an AF day.

Eskapa reminds us that we need to think of drinking as "'good for me', or at least 'necessary for me to get better.'" (p. 103)

Eskapa emphasized Sinclair's findings that the number of drinking sessions is more important to the cure than the volume of alcohol consumed per session. "De-addiction happens slowly but surely with the research showing that the more often you drink on naltrexone, the more you weaken your addiction." (p. 107). "Sinclair insists: 'We want to be clear that we are not encouraging patients to drink very large quantities at one time. Large volumes of alcohol do not help (do not hasten the de-addiction process) and can be dangerous. But drinking frequently while on naltrexone is beneficial since each time drinking is an extinction session.'" (p. 107 fn* [Eskapa's parentheses]).
{***}

That . . . seems to answer the question many of us have about whether it's okay to try to cut back the number of units consumed, or to try to cut back the number of drinking days. The short answer is units, okay; drinking days, not so much.

Of course if an occasional AF day is very important to us as a subjective mark of progress, then it may be a motivational tool. {And, reinforcement of positive behaviors on AF days is an important part of TSM} We each must decide for ourselves whether the cost of a missed drinking session outweighs the benefit of that feeling we are taming the alcohol beast.
{***}

If we stick to TSM, our drinking will go down all by itself. Remember, the sub-title of Eskapa's book is "Drink Your Way Sober Without Willpower . . . ".

No two of us are alike, but we all will get there. And it is so hard to get our heard around the idea that this cure requires no effort at all from us, apart from taking nal every time we drink!

Krazy1 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:46 am

I completely agree that it's good to attempt moderation as we move further along in the process - particularly with regard to recognizing habit vs. craving. My pattern for years has been: 1) crack open a beer 2) drink until empty 3) grab another - (wash, rinse, repeat). This often happens without thinking. If I stop to just ask myself 'do I really even want another beer?' I sometimes realize that it doesn't sound so good at that moment.

More times than I'd like to admit, I've accidentally gotten onto a highway out of habit (like going to work everyday), when I was intending to go somewhere else. If I simply had been paying attention, my purely habitual (and incorrect) response could have been avoided. I obviously didn't WANT to go the wrong way, but my brain led me to do what it was most accustomed to doing. Left on it's own, the unsupervised brain can easily lead us in the wrong direction. Then again, I'm partly blonde... :lol:

minneapolisnick · **Joined:** Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm **Posts:** 1793

Ah yes, I do remember reading that. Thanks for the refresher course! That cinches it for me -- I'm not tossing back any more than 6 or so on binge nights unless I have a significant craving that tells me otherwise. Hmm, I was going to go 4 AF days this week (one down, three to go). Maybe I'll switch it up, reduce the AF days but on those days maybe just have a couple at cocktail hour and call it day...

PS

Excellent analogy KK. It's kind of like me, scratching my backside when there is no itch, just habit. :lol:

bob3d · **Posted:** Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:46 pm

KrazyKris wrote:

...Then again, I'm partly blonde... :lol:

Which part? :oops:

bob3d · **Posted:** Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:52 pm

minneapolisnick wrote:

...The next time I have several drinks and feel that I can take or leave the next round, I think I'm going to make a minor effort to stop. As in, "I could take or leave this next drink, I'm consciously trying to reduce my dependence, so I think I'll pass." It just makes intuitive sense to me that once you reach the "take it or leave it stage" on nal, you should leave it, so long as you don't really have the craving. I'm going to try it.

What say you, LENA, or anyone else?

It's funny that you would post this the day after I attempted it! Last night there were 6 beers in the house and I thought, what if I had 3, then I could have the other 3 tomorrow. After I had 3 last night, I was ambivalent about having another, thought of my original plan and stopped with no effort. We'll see how the rest of the week goes. But I think it's a good idea.

Bob

minneapolisnick · **Joined:** Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm **Posts:** 1793

bob3d wrote:

KrazyKris wrote:

...Then again, I'm partly blonde... :lol:

Which part? :oops:

LOL Bob.

Krazy1 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:58 pm

bob3d wrote:

KrazyKris wrote:

...Then again, I'm partly blonde... :lol:

Which part? :oops:

I'll NEVER tell!

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