DrG0nz0,

Maggie has a really good point about that pressure being anxiety attacks. I was thinking that but didn't suggest it because I figured they would have ruled that out.

Since you take benzos have you tried taking one while those attacks happen and if so did it help any? That would be a good indicator it is anxiety.

Another thing, as much as I love my Wellbutrin for it has helped me so much, did these episodes start around the time your dose increase or when you started it? Some people have a hard time with Wellbutrin because of anxiety, and chest pain is listed as a side effect (god I hope it isn't the cause for it sounds like you are doing so well on it).

Here is a study that was done on Wellbutrin for smoking and one of the complaints was chest pain:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1884381/ (hopefully the link works)

Did you ever go to the doctors, or some from of emergency care while it was happening; if not maybe suggest a holter monitor or a stress test. Doing an EKG, being hooked up to a monitor while it is happening would allow the doctors to actually see if it is your heart. Doing a stress test may allow for the episode to happen or they may be able to see something abnormal that wouldn't be on a normal EKG. Unfortunately, if doctors cannot see while it is happening and there is no medical evidence as to why you are experiencing these episode it would be hard to diagnose. If anything doing any of these thing will put you to ease. I would start with the cheapest which would probably be an EKG if your health insurance doesn't cover it (just a suggestion). And Joe is right shop around for prices and ask if they give a discount for paying out of pocket. Also there may be a clinic that offers lower rates near you. Remember these are just suggestion, for I am not a medical professional I am merely looking at studies and medical info on the internet. Your doctor does know best for he is the one that has the degree.

Jaba

Jaba and Bardo,

Thanks for the information on Benzos. I am not big on them, and like I said I take .25 mg, maybe 3 times a week. Do you all think this could still be an issue for me? I don't even really feel the effects of it...as far as a reward specter, but I do notice feeling a little bit calmer, in the situations that I need them for; i.e. new social situations, intense meetings with people twice my age and twice as much experience as me in my field...and I have had social anxiety my entire life, to the point that I removed myself from college, amongst other situations I refrained or removed myself from.

I'm open to stopping it. I just want a better understanding. I could understand for someone taking 1.0 mg a day, or more...I know people that are prescribed 5mg a day, which I couldn't imagine...that this would be a large conflicting issue, but am I taking enough that it should hinder my progress so drastically?

Thanks again for the information, fellows.

DrG0nz0,

I only know what has been posted. I can look to see if there has been any studies as to the amount that would effect your progress, but I think it really doesn't matter of the amount, it matters how it is effecting your gaba receptors.

Have you tried anything over the counter?

There has been a few people on this forum that have anxiety and have tried L-theanine and swear by it. Also I have used Valerian root (smells awful) and it does a great job.

If you are using something to take the edge off and the benzos isn't that high of a dose, why not give the OTC stuff a try when you are at home to see how it feels.

In my personal opinion it wouldn't be worth the risk taking the benzos at least until you have a good control over your drinking habits.

If you feel the Benzos are a low enough dose, and you think it will not hindering your progress, continue taking them. Try being more compliant with the golden rule and tracking your intake. Then reevaluate in a couple of months to see how your progress is, for that will be the real indicator.

Remember these are only suggestions and you will need to figure out what works for you,

Jaba

Moderatedrinker,

Thanks so much for your insight on the cannabis. I believe, as you probably believe, that everyone is different, though, right?:) I have been a regular cannabis user since I was 21, so for about 4 years now. I also was a regular cannabis user before I ever starting drinking alcohol more than a few times a month, when I was 16-17, but I stopped for a while before resuming.

For me, it's wonderful. It slows my overactive mind down, and doesn't impair me in the least; don't get me wrong, if I wanted to get super stoned, I could, but I don't usually have any desire to do that. I have some water pipes that my girlfriend and I keep in a locked case, in case of any company. We keep the smoking to one room, and keep the rest of the house smelling clean, and keep it spotless.

I am actually even able to use cannabis before work, if I ever want. I don't do this usually, but if I know it's going to be a super slow day, sometimes I will; I work for an HVAC company in KY, as the Marketing Director, and I am just not into the usual Kentucky banter I get from my coworkers, who are country raised. So sometimes getting a little "lifted" can make me feel less like throwing their bottles of dip spit back at them, after leaving them on my desk, and talking to me about shooting fish with a 12 gauge in Lake Cumberland...lol. I, also, often have Account Executives just springing into my office, who I need to remain articulate and poised around, which I also have no problem with.

I'm not on edge if we don't have any...but we usually always do. I make plenty of money, and actually have a spot in my excel sheet budgeted for Cannabis; if we were ever to max it out, it's no more, until next month, but that has never happened. An OZ will last my girlfriend and I a month or more. And my source is a close friend, who works responsibly in the same industry, respectfully not in mgmt, but helps me out with my nuggets when I need them, in his spare time, so it's as easy as getting a bottle of wine for me.

Thanks very much for your insight and I am sorry about your experience with your S.O.; I know plenty of people who cannot handle their cannabis, and just are entirely out of it, and I know even more that just constantly over do it, and smoke blunts and stuff all the time, which I think is just irresponsible when it comes down to it, but, ****, people have made careers out of doing that too (Mr. Nelson, D O double G) haha. I am (kind of) an artist, so it's a functional high that works for me, when I am drawing up creatives for TV or digital advertisement.

I completely understand your position on the subject, but it's one of those things that's truly subjective to an individuals perspective, in my opinion. Scientifically and medically speaking, I haven't read of any conflicting agendas between cannabinoid receptors, and any of the medicine I take, including Nal (please correct me if I'm wrong, as I do want to be knowledgable of the subject) and I am very transparent to my Psych, and my GP's, of my usage, and it has done nothing to my physical health, whatsoever.

Personally, I am a huge advocate of it, and a huge advocate of legalization. I hope that all willing adults eventually have the opportunity to purchase cannabis in a store, not feeling like a criminal, getting the proper education of types of cannabis (indos vs sats), and cannabis strains, so they can purchase exactly what they would like to see a particular result form from. When I was in Colorado last year, I went into the dispensaries there, greeted with open arms, by people bursting with the will to educate adults on their fine products. I was able to say, "You know, I'd like something that would not weigh me down a lot, that will give me more energy, for the day, and I would like something that will weigh me down, and make me feel sleepy, for at night, and I would like your highest THC concentrated nugget, because I am here in one of the only legal states, and why the hell not." It was refreshing and fun, but it was also a reflection of how the industry, and the product, can be driven in a responsible, useful direction for society. Not to mention the 1b+ in tax collections the state has benefited from (something my state could not only benefit from, but has had a huge illegal industry in since the prohibition era, in Appalachia KY), and also the drastic reduction of heroin and pain killer overdoses, that have been reported there, and in Washington.

Thanks again for your comment! I really appreciate everyone's different perspectives on the different topics we have brought up. And I am open to discussing this more, if you would like. I hope I don't come off too over opinionated on the subject, but it is something I am passionate about.

Best wishes, MD!

-Doc

Jaba, and Maggie,

Thanks for both of those posts. To be completely honest, I do NOT think it is anxiety related. In the last 3-4 months or so, my anxiety has been at an all time low. I was someone who used to have absolutely terrible anxiety, too. Whether it be social, or personal, it would make me feel out of control. There were times when I was attending UK, before these symptoms started popping up, where teachers would call on me, and I would freeze, and leave the classroom, without saying anything; this once happened in a class of 400 people, and I literally blacked out, while I was walking out. I remember grabbing my bag, and then I just remember taking a huge breath and crashing into the ground, once I left the building. ****. Used. To. Be. Rough for me.

I'm not a bad looking guy, but I had a ton of childhood issues, that kept me from being confident, including being thrown into a boarding school against my will when i was 17, where if any of the guys talked to the girls, we would be physically restrained--I know that sounds extreme, but it's the truth. The school was eventually shut down, because 'life coaches' were caught abusing kids on camera http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1970458
Needless to say, that was an f-ed up experience, that left me with less confidence, and more anxiety. It's after that, and after I immediately went to an unsupervised art college, 2 weeks after graduating from that hell hole, that my drinking started to become more prevalent.
Fast forward a couple of years. When I met my current girlfriend, I was not on Nal. I was getting hammered every night, drinking **** tons of vodka, inviting all types of girls over, but only when I was drunk, or doing random drugs, like L or K, with my shady roommate, at the time, who I later found out was on H. I had no confidence, and was just trying to be some cool wookie that got f-ed up all of the time, that the girls with no direction in life would want to sleep with. The circumstance that led me to meet my girlfriend, was that I was sitting on my porch, barely able to talk because I was on K, and had been drinking, and she walked by with a bassnectar shirt on, who I am a huge fan of. I asked her to come over to say hi to us, and asked her about her shirt, and then found out she was my next door neighbor, lol. We hit it off, and hung out every day after that, but when I was sober, I was awkward, leading me to get wasted as much as possible. I eventually hit a bottom, where I was having withdrawal from booze, and told her I needed to talk to my Psych about getting help. He had talked about Nal in the past, just enthusiastically, with being on the forefront of a new treatment; he never implied I needed it...because I never implied I had an alcohol problem.

Thus, began a long road of physical and psychological recovery. Today, I see no point in being anxious. People can **** off, if they want to make someone feel uncomfortable, and most of the time, that's not the case, and we, as people, or me, in my case, are just overly sensitive to others at times. I attribute my recent boost in confidence, and social wellness, entirely to the wellbutrin, which was only a recent transition.

So, super long, rant-story, short, I don't think this is anxiety related, as my symptoms have been around for 2-3 years now, maybe longer. I just wonder if I did some real damage to my body, when I was drinking so heavy, and also not eating well, or drinking water enough. I just want an answer, so I don't have to worry, the little I do now, that my heart might explode...

As far as the benzos, they can make the of the symptoms go away, sometimes, but not always, and not most of the time. And as far as continuing to take them, I am totally open to stopping. I will look into those OTC meds, and absolutely give them a shot. When I very first started taking it, I was realllly hesitant. So much so that the first time my Dr recommended it, I said I was good. But we eventually agreed on the lowest dose possible, and not taking it regularly; I did not want to risk dependency. So, I won't rant about this a bunch, but I appreciate those suggestions, and will look into those the next time I am at the grocery store, and will refrain from Xan until then.

Thanks again fellows!

Helluva story, Doc. Thanks for confiding in us.

The "pressure", that's a curious one. Anxiety crossed my mind too, as I hear of people with panic attacks talk about pressure/pain in their chest, increased heart rate, etc. This sounds different though. Well, keep us up on what's going on with that, keeping my fingers crossed that it's not anything to do with your heart!

I use some MJ a few times a month, high CBD stuff mainly. Just a single puff, the size of the head of a map pin (not push-pin). A gram will last me a year, might go bad before I get through it. Helps when I get in a funk or stuck in a loop about something, but concentration goes out the door. Tried some higher THC stuff, much more cerebral. Thought people were putting too fine a point on it about the difference between the two, but no. We've got recreational MJ shops around here, it's just like what you were talking about. I think it's great. From my POV, pot is part of what got the economy moving again after the Global Financial Crisis, lol!

GABA is another OTC possibility, you can check reviews on Amazon. Lemon balm might be something to look into as well. Not for the pressure, just a nice calming / anxiolytic effect to counter the lack of alcohol, which is a GABA agonist.

DrG0nz0,

I can relate to your story, except for the going to boarding school. My parents didn't care what I did, how I did in school, the time I got home, or who I was with, so I guess I am lucky that I am alive. My mom was a 60s style parent, where even though she wasn't a hippy, her parenting style was (partying with us and everything), and my dad was an either at work or drunk (off work during the day he would sit outside drunk with a baseball bat just waiting for the kids from a near by school to cut through our yard, fun times). 10 years of therapy and raising my own children I still wonder WTF. My parents did the best they could with the situation that they were in; however, I still couldn't let my children run amuck like that. My daughter is about your age, and I did have a heck of a time with her; however, I sent her to a private school and told her that the next step was boarding school. So I can understand why your parents did what they did (I think), for when you see your child about to ruin their life you want to stop that downward spiral. My son had to stop hanging around with his friends that he had since grade school because he saw them heading down that path. I explained to my children that your friends can change as fast as Anakin went to the dark side (hopefully you saw Star Wars), and my son sadly had to witness that, but at least he didn't go in that direction with them. It is sad for they all come from good families, and 2 of them got their act together, 1 is still stoned and doing nothing with his life, and one is in jail.

It is very unfortunate you were sent to a place that made things worse instead of helping you. My heart goes out to you, for if you were my child I would feel awful having put you through that. I can image it is hard to talking about. Thanks for sharing. { }s

The good news is you picked yourself up and moved forward. You are getting the help that you need and even though your life took a detour, you are back on track. That takes a lot of character and strength to be able to do that, so give yourself credit for that. Sure your GF helped, but you made those choices and got the help that was needed.

I have done a lot of stupid things to my body, from drugs/alcohol to anorexia/bulimia to name a few, and I can tell you that our bodies are resilient; however, have whatever tests that you need to rule-out that nothing is going on (think positively). I do not think you have done any damage, but it is alway better to be safe than sorry. And promise yourself from this day forward you will try to be as healthy as you can, and you are going to take can of your body.

I am glad you are no longer anxious, and the Wellbutrin is helping you be a better you, for that is remarkable. I like your attitude towards people, and I wish I could be that way at times.

As far as the benzos, even though you are on a very low dose, please take your time tapering off of them if you do decide to stop them or speak to your doctor about it. Maybe your dose is low enough you shouldn't have to, but it is better to be safe than sorry.

Is your doctor a TSM doctor, or familiar with TSM?

So, how was your sleep? Any better with the Trazadone, or did you not taking it yet?

I think you are making steps in the right direction, and as long as you take your nal 1 hour before you drink things should start to turn around.

Jaba

Jaba -

Check Doc's last post on the first page, 4th paragraph. It'll trip you out.

Joe,

I did read that, and that is why I asked if his doctor was a TSM doctor, for DrG0nz0 hasn't read the book yet. I didn't comment on it because I was trying to focus on other things with the time that I had; however, it is fascinating. I didn't quite understand if DrG0nz0 met Sinclair while he was in Finland or how it actually came about. If DrG0nz0 was in Finland how did he end up there and then back here in the US (in KY of all places). He is very lucky to have a doctor that actually worked with Sinclair.

DrG0nz0,

Just checking to see how your sleep has been, and I hope that I haven't bombarded you with too much info to think about.

Nal on,

Jaba

DR G
it sounds like you're all over the MJ. You're right substances are only a problem if they cause problems for you.
Take Care
MD