Springer Rider made a very insightful comment in my weekly progress thread that I thought would be useful to have as its own thread:

"Simply because we are not craving does not mean we don't drink. Most of us came into this game, non addicted. We got drunk for the childish recreational reasons. But that abuse led to addiction and what was once fun became murder.

I am pushing that we try to control our drinking to some extent but once we feel like we are going to lose control, then drink on Naltrexone. That gradually became my pattern and I think there is some science behind it. But that is my two cents and your mileage may differ."

I've recently started to have similar thoughts about TSM and controlling my drinking. There are two points in SR’s points that really stand out.

1. Simply because we are not craving does not mean we don’t drink. I’m finding that some of my drinking now is just out of habit. I’ve been drinking on a regular, almost nightly basis, for years now. On some nights, I start drinking just because that is what I’ve always done, not because I crave drinking. Taking this routine (i.e., drinking) out of my life means making some changes in what I do with my time in the evenings.

2. Try to control our drinking to some extent, but once we feel like we are going to lose control, then drink on Naltrexone. Dr. Eskapa actually condoned this exact behavior in a thread somewhere on these boards and I believe Dr. Sinclair may have said something along these lines in Dr. Eskapa’s book. This seems to tie into the habit aspect of drinking listed above.

"I’m finding that some of my drinking now is just out of habit. I’ve been drinking on a regular, almost nightly basis, for years now. On some nights, I start drinking just because that is what I’ve always done, not because I crave drinking."

This is an ongoing dilemma within myself. I find I am addicted because I did so much drinking out of habit.....now we break the addiction, we must find new ways to spend our time.

I look forward to everyone's thoughts in regards to this post. I need to find new ways to pass my evenings instead of drinking.

I think I'll give it a try. I wrote a post about this having potential for bingers, but saying I doubt it would apply to daily drinkers as we do not have Alcohol Deprivation Effect for a trigger.

But in the week I've been back on nal, the drinking has crept right up. Not the craving; just the consumption. Mostly, I notice I am drinking earlier in the day. The first nagging thought of alcohol and I pop a nal and watch the clock for the hour. I think I'll try to stay busy and put off drinking to At least 6 pm. If that works, maybe I'll set a cut-off of maybe 10 pm.

If something comes up, such as a social occasion, I'll be flexible. But I see no reason not to try to at least wait until true craving sets in instead of just a mild, nagging self-suggestion. If I cut back one or two a day, my liver will thank me.

Thanks for the thread, Q. I'll be interested to see where this takes us.

Since I was sick from so much drinking on vacation, this is exactly what I have been doing. I am more conscience. Yesterday, at a time I would have started drinking something stressful happened and instead of drinking I handled the situation. I had already taken the naltrexone and waited maybe 2 hours before having a glass of wine, which I sipped, different for me. I then prepared supper and had a second glass of wine with supper which I also sipped. This was not an effort it just happened that I wanted to drink slowly it seemed, very strange. That was it, I was done, no cravings for more. If this can continue for me it marks a big success. I plan to be more in tune to my cravings vs. habit! Boy, did this feel good. This week so far it has been 8 units since Sunday! Now that's a record, but don't forget I was disgusted and not feeling well either.
The other units I drank because I was afraid I was in some sort of withdrawal and was very anxious and drank mainly because of anxiety and thinking something bad was going to happen to me if I did not drink.
I thought this info. might be helpful for those who overthink or have anxiety!

Just wordering at what point do we consider TSM in later stages?

I would think retraining ourselves to find other things to do would be beneficial in any stage of TSM, not just the later. Maybe in the beginning it might be a bit of overload, however, I think it's something would can all start thinking about and addressing.

I consider myself new, on week 5, and I am consciously aware that I need to find something else to do to get through the habit drinking. I am starting to be aware of what is craving, and what is habit, or even boredom. At this stage of my 'game', I am still finding craving, but trying to think through it.

I can't wait to get to the point where I don't have to think about it.

Yes, it may be difficult to reconcile this effort with the need to drink through triggers.

Shall we consider the "later stages" the time after the three-month "baseline"??

I'm trying not to overthink it.

I think anything beyond 3 months is a reasonable definition of the 'later stages'. As far as controlling drinking, I like the recipie for success that Tom shared (and I wish he would come back):

1) Take Naltrexone

2) Remember that you don't have to go back to abstinence, so you don't have to get all your drinking done in one night

3) Harm reduction practices - eat when you drink, drink water, try not to drink when angry, know your weakness (I don't do shots anymore), set limits and try to stick by them, but if you fail don't beat yourself up - better is better, keep trying

4) Keeping a journal

5) Firm belief that NALTREXONE + DRINKING = CURE

The base line of three months sounds good .
It's a crucial question this one that a lot of posts have reflected concern about .
Kris's pointing to Tom's post is helpful all techniques that aid moderation are useful
on the days we drink . The days we don't drink should be those without craving
and yet triggers come and habits die hard ,if the ritual of daily drinking around dinner time for example tempts it's good to hold the ritual and take a non alc drink, spicey
or with lime I find good .Tomatoe juice with tabasco , coke , iced tea .
There 'll come a point where serial AF's increase , more than two I've not known
comfortably but I could imagine say four comfortable AF's in a week when this starts happening are you tempted to attempt a whole week AF ? Is this scary ?
The only sane answer I come up with here is that it just has to be tried .
That's why at some point in in the coming weeks I'll give this a bash , the chief condition MUST be a lack of craving and then keep riding the wave . I fear that if this isn't tried at some point I'll stay a slave to the habit , addicted to the behaviourhal action of drinking ( as opposed to alcohol ) and it seems logical to me that if I don't break that I' ll forever remain someone who for reason of habit keeps drinking several days every week from habit and is never really free .

I'm in the extreme beginning phase - just trying to get a prescription today - but there have been so many things that I wanted to do but would start drinking and nothing would get done. Found an old journal from 2006 and it had my 'for the year' goals such as going to church, taking a yoga class at night with my daughter... house stuff / career stuff...

Well, church is on Sunday so that just has never happened. Honestly cannot remember a Saturday without drinking. And night exercise classes just never seemed to happen either. It was too easy to have a 'bad day' and open a bottle of wine. Luckily, I really built up my career before the drinking started to consume my thoughts so I've been able to coast the last couple of years - just waiting for that house of cards to fall. I'm in a real sweet place with a good marriage, good kids, good job and I'm walking a tightrope.

Can't wait until I can make plans and trust that I'll keep them.

Virginia