I'm another from "Class of Autumn 2014", although I'm about a month behind you. I seem to remember that thistime2014 got the pretty much cured, but was having trouble with Nalmefene:

http://www.thesinclairmethod.net/community/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3914&start=130&sid=fb6d2719113663a457bf4c5d56d9616a

he hasn't been on the forum since March so maybe he's cured, maybe not ...

I'm similar to you in progress - the crazy side of AL has gone, but definitely drinking more than I want to & the habit is strong still. I still have faith in TSM - I think I'm probably 2/3rds the way to where I want to be - but I can feel the balance tipping slowly that way

-badger

Thank you, jaba, for always cheering me on. You have to be one of the sweetest, most thoughtful and caring people that I have ever encountered.

Sorry, Clarion, that you had to give up cooking. Maybe one day you will try it again, or maybe it was not as important to you as it was to me.

I FOR SURE have wondered if TSM doesn't work much faster on those with a bigger problem. Easy for me to say, maybe, but I don't care that it has taken 8 months to work, IT HAS WORKED and given me a new chance to make a better life for myself rather than just watch myself get more and more addicted each year. That is worth 8 months and more to me. And I am still not all the way there, but the nal has given me the ability to make the changes that I really did want to make and was having a hard time with.

Hang in there, nigelr. Because of what you do, this was BOUND to be harder for you than for most. Just keep taking the pill and watching yourself, thinking about how you can improve your life, little by little, day by day.

Badger, I am glad that you still have faith in TSM.


Nal on! Newlife

I'm not sure I agree Clarion. From a purely physiological standpoint Naltrexone will have the same blocking effect on anyone, regardless of how they feel about their relationship to alcohol. In other words, I think it can have positive benefits on someone who is on the road to becoming an full blown alcoholic, but doesn't want to give up drinking altogether.......a means of gaining control. I don't think TSM isn't just for people that have gazed into the abyss.

I think all4 is right. TSM will block endorphin in anyone who does it but the question is how quickly will extinction come? I think there is a lot more work that needs to be done on this subject. Almost makes me want to go get my PHD

I can only speak for myself and in doing so I need to be careful because I know that what worked so well for me is not necessarily working so well for others and I don't want to make it look like I am insinuating that it's because they are not trying or not capable or not the right type person and so on. It worked for me in this way so that is the way I approach it.

I was very very very well ready to stop drinking I just plain and simply couldn't. Granted I could punch through the withdrawal and sober up for a week or two or even over a month on several occasions but as we all know from the book the alcohol deprivation syndrome would kick in high gear and I'd be back at it full force. I didn't know the term ADS back then but I knew it was happening. Evrery time I stopped drinking in due time I'd start to feel the pent up rage to go back and destroy myself and then it would happen.

I think TSM worked for me right away because I was always looking for a way out. In fact during those times that I would sober up I was always making wild excuses NOT to drink. You all have probably been there. I would make up just as many wild excuses to not drink when I was sober as to drinking when I was not. It's really a form of mental torture when you think about it. So I wanted out. I always wanted out but if I had just one drink then the chase was on and I'd have to keep my levels up or get sick. That's what TSM did for me right away. It stopped the chase. So long before extinction even started to take place TSM worked for me because it stopped the chase.

The chase is coupled with the sickness and this is what interests me greatly. The sickness as I describe it is essentially an overwelming feeling of crisis. After one drink I get my reward and then I start to feel the crisis. In the past I had always thought that this was due to the actual alcohol molecule. The drug itself and what it does to the body but now I know that is not true. The sickness after having one drink and then pausing was actually my brain punishing the body to get more. IT's insane but I know it's true because after my very first experience with TSM I had a mere 3 drinks and felt no sickness at all, no crisis. The reason why is because it was almost as if I drank nothing and therefore the reward was never given and the chase never begun. The alcohol molecule was in my body but it didn't cause this crisis for more so it must have been my own mind doing it.

When I think about this it kind of freaks me out quite frankly and puts a whole lot of other things in perspective like what really does influence us from the outside world? Or is EVERYTHING manifest in our brains?

Ok I'll leave that one for the philosophers.

But suffice to say TSM started working for me immediately because it ended the chase which was the cause of the sickness which lead to drinking more, the cure to the self inflicted disease.

So that's why I responded fast, I found my way out. Now 4 months later I notice other things that are the actual physical process of extinction. I always mention it in this way because it is an actual physical process like when you break a bone and it heals. It's not a psychological process in a cognitive sense (unless my understanding is wrong) but it physically rewires the brain and that indeed takes time and many drinking sessions and probably has a lot to do with an individuals genetics.

So in short my experience with TSM was in two parts. One, the chase. Since the chase and all it's accouterments was the sole reason for my out of control drinking that ended immediately. And two, the physical process of extinction which takes time but I can see it happening now as I am not plagued with chronic thoughts about drinking and my normal triggers have been cemented shut.

So my hypothesis at the moment is that fast responders are people who's main problem with alcohol is the chase, it's associated sickness, withdrawal and so on as a main directive in drinking. IT also can't hurt to have been looking for a way out.

And again I want to be careful and not insinuate anything here. We all drink for a variety of reasons. I didn't drink soley because of the physical addiction I drank because it would mask my daily problems just like anyone else but once it started it was primarily the chase that kept it going and that was way out of control and immediately stopped by TSM.

I always like to use my wife as an example because she's not an alcoholic but does drink most days. She will admit that she drinks because of stress at work and that it's wonderful to relax with a glass of wine or two. That's not a problem but if she thought that was a problem and went to TSM to try and solve it she would be very disappointed as I don't think it would work. Yes sure it will block the endorphin and her buzz will be different but it simply will not have the same power over her as it did someone like myself who was out of control.

That's my take on it.

All41,

I think it will have the same blocking effect on anyone regardless of their status (alcoholic or non-alcoholic), but how many times have you drank through the medicine looking for that buzz that isn't going to happen? I am not talking about drunk, I am talking about that "ah" moment (or as Ocean puts it orgasmic feeling). I know that I have had a few times that I kept on drinking even though that moment wasn't going to come. And I know of a few people that have posted on here and left because they cared about that moment and haven't gotten to the point to where they want to give it that up, or they left because they couldn't stand the side effects and would rather drink themselves stupid instead of trying to slowly increase their dose until the side effects go away.

BUT I think Clarion is referring to the people that no longer care for that moment and would give anything to move forward without alcohol. Just because people are here and taking that pill doesn't mean they are going to get the full benefit from TSM, for it is about the nal blocking the receptors and the nal. doesn't stop that habit. The book makes it sound like it should, but it doesn't. And that is why everyone says, "The Nal will not knock that drink out of your hand".

I do hope when the book is rewritten Dr. E. puts things into a clearer perspective, for it is frustrating for everyone (except a for a lucky few) that thinks all you have to do is take pill, wait and drink...GOD IF ONLY!

Ocean,

Thanks for that, for I think that is what I was trying to say (you posted before me).

True that, JABA

Beats the alternatives though ........

While I think his "you're not ready" remark might apply to people who have lost all control and stared into the abyss, I don't think it applies to everyone who drinks more than they should, and has a desire to drink less (keeping in mind that the accepted definition of "cured" isn't sobriety, it's drinking at safe levels). It's just that "you're not ready" sounds like it came out of an AA playbook. Not ready for what exactly? Not ready for TSM, not ready to drink at safe levels, or is that just a way of saying not ready for sobriety?

all41,

I can hear your frustration. I am so sorry if this disscusion has you a little heated.

Maybe if we thought about it in a different way...I have a problem drinking, and TSM will help. All I have to do is take a pill, wait an hour, and drink and all my problems with drinking will go away. I will be able to stop when I want to and drink in "healthy limits".

But that isn't how TSM works and we all know that it takes work, for me to be able to drink in "healthy limits" I have to be willing to walk away.

Think about a junkie that has to have a fix, for that is how bad Ocean was. He drank to keep himself from going into DTs. BUT once he started drinking it turned into a downward spiral and he couldn't stop. All he wants is to be able to drink enough not to go into withdrawals. He used TSM to take away that downward spiral, for he could finally drink and stop. So nal + alcohol = Ocean's methadone. Ocean responded faster because of how heavy his addiction was with the alcohol.

Those of us who have to "work" to get TSM to help us do not have a physical addiction (this is just theory).

"You're not ready" isn't saying you are not ready for TSM, or sobriety, but maybe not ready to drink in healthy limits (for nal. cannot do that for you).

You have to be willing to walk away. It is so easy to continue drinking, BUT if you know what your limit is and walk away, you are doing what normal non-addict people do. They know what "when" is the majority of the time.

Jaba

(please realize I am not judging, just trying to help)

Boy Clarion, a little help?

Don't worry jaba it takes a LOT more than that to get me heated

It's just that I don't agree with the "you're not ready" comment, simply because it implies we're all in the same boat, which we're not, and that perhaps you have to reach some sort of stage or something before you're "ready".

The bottom line is everyone on here is different, our alcohol use disorders vary, and our goals (what we are ready for) may differ.