Thank you all for the contributions. It's especially great to hear from 'old timer', Guappo.

Since my introduction I have sought council from two physicians. A for-profit Harvard educated and employed psychiatrist specializing in Naltraxone and my primary care physician.

I still have an open dialogue with the former, but our conversation tended to focus on the psychological origins of my addiction(s), trauma(of which I'm undecided if any exists). His opinion at present was:
a) There was no guarantee Naltrexone would cure my compulsion to drink
b) my 9 months in AA is a complete farce as I substituted my underlying addiction with marijuana
c) he treats active alcoholics. I'm abstinent and need to start over with my recovery program. He's not sure I meet the criteria to enroll as one of his patients.
d) he's not certain I can afford him.

With my GP, who is excellent I introduced the text and provided an overview of how the Sinclair Method works. I am fairly well versed on the the subject at this point and found this forum very helpful. We have set up a contingency plan. She will read the book and prescribe Naltrexone if I relapse. I'm to see her again at the close of the month.

My ultimate stance... At this point nearly all can agree that alcoholism is a progressive disease. It only gets worse through stages outlined in both The Big Book and The Cure to Alcoholism. As such my progression through either interpretation is that I am a full-blown alcoholic. The shear magnitude of lifestyle and emotional sacrifices I've made for my right to drink is staggering. The freedom to attempt this cure expired with me about three years ago. I can not drink in safety. As such, I can't participate in the experiment for one year. I can't functionally drink alcohol for one year. In three months this wonderful woman in my life will be gone, my finances in ruins, horrify my elderly parents... and I'll be drunk again. There's no pleasure left in a bottle for me. It's no fun ever, anymore.

I'm not entirely certain what to do about the marijuana. Harvard was pretty taken aback by it. He thought it peculiar when I pleaded my life was manageable on it. My GP thought one joint a day at 6pm while not ideal was by no means a travesty. It is time for me to do away with it and it scares the bejeesus out of me. No grass could mean a relapse, but I now have a protocol in place to begin Naltrexone in the event of such. In a perfect world I think I should have it on hand. I'm undecided at present what the negative implications are for my defense against having that first drink.

To any and all I'm apologetic you share this disease with me. It is awful for everyone, everytime, in every way. I believe Guappo made some excellent points centering on taking an active role in reducing consumption while on Natrexone. I think 'freely drinking' as suggested in the book might be too literally interpreted at times.

God forbid the other shoe drops I'll be back. Best,

bar·do
ˈbärdō/
noun
noun: bardo

(in Tibetan Buddhism) a state of existence between death and rebirth, varying in length according to a person's conduct in life and manner of, or age at, death.
an indeterminate, transitional state.
"wandering adrift in a bardo of intense negativity, blame, disappointment, criticism, and denial"

Bardo: for what it is worth Dr. Harvard sounds awful and I would save your money. And although I don't actively smoke marijuana, I think I agree with your GP; one joint a day at six o'clock? If that is what it takes you to stay sober and that is all you are doing, why would you stop it and risk an alcohol relapse?

Maybe I am not understanding.

I wish I could offer more. Stay safe. Newlife

Newlife,

Funny. My girlfriend was unimpressed with Harvard. I'm open to all opinions. He runs $295/hr. so I'm coming out ahead having spoke to him for 40min and I find it kind of him. And he may yet answer more of my questions as we've subsequently texted a few times. If I hear anything pertinent to perhaps help others here or myself it is good. He was unimpressed with my counter-offer of $100/hr. cash and spiritual charity for someone so spiritual.

Regarding the marijuana. It prompts controversy. My AA brethren say I'm not sober. I would argue under that school of thought that them chain smoking while guzzling energy drinks and coffee to also be an altered state of consciousness, but that's naturally poorly received. The Big Book classifies it as 'another issue' and the subject doesn't belong in AA. So from a methodical recovery program stand point its a precarious component. One huge problem are the consequences of not having it available. I'm in MA(US) and it's under a multitude of circumstances legal and significantly decriminalized never mind available. Regardless, when I don't have it my sobriety becomes a struggle. Then we must talk in terms of plateaus of individual existence, quality of life... I know that I'm not functioning at my highest potential using it. Harvard said,"I wasn't running on all cylinders. " Further, like alcohol it is an escape and dulls/clouds emotions. Some would say I smoke alcoholically. All in all it's an altered state to what is natural. Harvard told me it is my egoism. I studied Tibetian Buddism for nearly a decade. Ego by it's very nature seeks to manipulate, control and alter otherwise natural states. That said I can agree on his point. Lastly, I think we as a society don't fully understand the countless benefits of marijuana. Harvard is a recovered alcoholic himself. I would argue he never regularly used marijuana. That said he instinctively has an aversion to it and classifies it as addictive behavior. Who's to say there may not be some sound use of marijuana in a recovery enterprise? Regardless, I'm leaps and bounds from where I was 9 months ago. On a side note during my first three months in AA I abstained from marijuana (I've been attending for 13 months).

Also... Your numbers look really good to a guy like me! That seems like a very manageable intake of alcohol that with any luck will lessen. Super!

Bardo,

My heart goes out to you. I hate to see you struggle.

I agree with Newlife. And if one joint at 6pm keeps you away from al. then by all means keep doing what you are doing. You can deal with the rest after you are free from the grips of al. Are you trading one addiction for another? Only you could answer that. Is this one joint holding you back? I would have to say no, for even though you are not functioning at your highest potential you are functioning which on al. you could not.

I do remember reading something about marijuana on the other websites, but I did not read it for I no longer partake in that activity. But when I did, I had a heck of a time coming off of it for I was using it as an emotional crutch. I personally have no problems with people needed to use it for any reason, and it sounds like you are benefiting from it. The laws of man needs to get caught up with the science of the drug. It will happen, for more states are legalizing it. I have a friend her son had cancer and found someone to send it to him from a legal state (and I was surprised to hear they have it as gummy candy). He uses the E cigarette and I believe it is in liquid form.

You were not using marijuana for the first three months while in AA, why did you go back to it?

Did your doctor talk to you about using nal. and being abstinence? It may allow you to abstain until you get a grip on staying sober (or the times you don't have marijuana), for it does help with cravings. And I believe there are other drugs that may help with cravings as well. That is just a suggestion.

Jaba

Hi Bardo.
The marijuana issue is interesting. I researched some and found that tests were done with Nal and Mj to discover the role of opoid receptors in Mj use. Apparently the pathways are not at all the same as Nal did nothing to block Mj. I studied the effects of Mj in regard to Alzheimers and was encouraged to find that my LDN use would Not block Mj use (purely medicinal of course). From practical experience, pot used very infrequently still makes me ravenously hungry and thirsty but does not make me overly desirous of AL.
Just sayin. The two would seem to be largely unrelated.
Steve.

Thank you Bardo. I was never really a binge drinker, more like a person who was seeing their alcohol use just become greater and greater over time who could see the writing on the wall if I did not regain control. So our circumstances are completely different. My biggest challenge is that I cannot seem to get away from the daily drinking.

I have never been to AA or rehab, but a lot of what you say sounds like what they would say, which makes sense. I know it works for some people and God Bless them. But it is totally unrelated to what we are doing here. That doesn't make one "better" than the other, each person has to find what works for them.

I still can't help saying this, though, I hope it is ok: The more you tell me about Dr. Harvard, the worse he sounds! Pompous, and all about the money. What is wrong with altered states of consciousness? Meditation is an altered state of consciousness, but one without which I almost could not survive on a daily basis. And what about people like my brother-in-law and his partner, who are the farthest thing in the world from alcoholics, but who very much look forward to reconnecting and enjoying their nightly "Happy Hour" cocktail at the end of every day, but never have more than one? They are both HIGHLY successful business executives. What would be the difference if, instead of that cocktail, they sat down and smoked a joint together every evening (other than the fact that is illegal, believe me, I know that, but the end of that is coming)? Who is he to say that they are not reaching their full potential or whatever judgmental BS he seems to have laid on you.

I'm sorry to sound so strident but I am just wondering if some of the AA/rehab/recovery stuff has you a little bit brainwashed and may be working against you. I just want what is best for you, and especially for your safety.

Big hugs from Newlife

I went back to MJ because I still wanted a sense of release. I had only stopped using it because my supplier fell through for some months and I figured 'why not'? I have two AA sponsors. One, complete sobriety 30 years with the last two years a daily MJ smoker. The other has 40 years sobriety and considers it 'another issue' thinking I'll stop on my own at some point. I could always take it or leave it. MJ that is. It's not like I've ever gone through withdrawals over it. The problem now is I'm using it to cope with sobriety.

My doctor doesn't really know what to do with alcoholism. I would say she's pretty uninformed much like most of the medical community. She seemed a bit shocked when I pointed out the 90% relapse rate of AA. All she knows to tell me is go to aa. I'll be very interested to hear what she has to say after reading that book.

Your thoughts are welcome. The last thing I'm trying to do is suggest there's much rhyme or reason to the AA world. I'm immensely critical of it. To think we are still abiding by a theory developed in 1935 by two very ill men is mind boggling. And lots of the people with long-term sobriety seem pretty questionable to me in other facets of their lives.

I'm very fearful of my drinking which in some sense is the fault of AA, but really the fault of how it has expressed itself in my life. When considering Naltrexone I'm going to a very scary place. As I aforementioned my relapses last fall were quite something no doubt ignited by the alcohol deprivation effect outlined in the book. I bought a pint of alcohol one night still thinking, "there has to be some mistake". I went back to the liquor store 1.5 hours later and purchased another bottle. Then I was off and running. I didn't even leave my house for the next 6 days, but to purchase more handles of booze. I just don't know where to go with that experience. How am I going to take Naltrexone daily when the day turns into one horrible binge? Ugh. If I could reasonably expect to be able to drink say 10 drinks only at night I would have no problem with the Naltrexone treatment. But I can't seem to do that anymore. And then there's the girl whom I love. She just moved in with me. She's never seen me drunk. I don't think she'll be able to handle that kind of hell.

Bardo,

I was reading in the options saves lives forum and I believe that there are a few people that were going to AA and then started TSM. You might want to take a peak over there and maybe discuss it with them. One was Ajar and his last post was Aug 8 and he has been sober for 2 1/2 years. I think you need try to find someone that has been where you are and how the implemented TSM into their life. Again, this is just a thought. I am not sure how many of the old timers here were sober before starting STM, but you might want to look at older post to see if you can find any. Some of the old timers may still have the same email address.

I think your fear is legitimate with your girlfriend since she has never seen you drunk before. You might want to have a very frank conversion with her if that time comes. You can still get drunk on the nal. I sometimes would get drunk faster on it, and if I would drink too fast my intake would increase, but never to pre-nal. levels.

I never had "withdrawals" from stopping MJ but my anxiety level increased, and I did eventually had to go into therapy for issues I tried to bury. You can only runaway from your problem for so long. I think you will eventually ween yourself off the weed with time and without problem, for I think it is smart for using it the way you are.

I wish I could do more for you, for I know how hard this is for you

Jaba

Jaba,

Thank you. I followed your advice and have found exactly what I am looking for. I sent a message to ajar requesting information and an update. I created a thread over there as well:

http://optionssavelives.freeforums.net/ ... g-feedback

For others here is member ajar's intro:

http://optionssavelives.freeforums.net/ ... -alcoholic

Last update:

http://optionssavelives.freeforums.net/ ... ce-longing