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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:53 pm
Posts: 446
Maggie, I am rereading the book, but I came to the conclusion today that forcing an alcohol free day is not good on many levels. Funny thing is that tonight I was going out and planned on taking the nal. I totally forgot to take it. I didn't realize it until I had been at the get-together for about 20 minutes. I had walked to my friend's house so I did not have my purse with me with nal in it. I was fine with sparkling water all night and did not give having a drink a thought. Progress!

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Weeks 1, 2 - 15, 50 AF/0
Weeks 3-11 not tracking AF/0
Weeks 12-27 average 18-21
Week 28-42 not tracking


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:01 am 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 6:52 am
Posts: 1003
Location: England
jaba wrote:
Thanks UK Blonde,

I still think this is pretty confusing, for I have control now, and I can finally stop. Where before I would have to drink until all the al. was gone in the house, or pass out and I was never able to have an af day even after a heavy night of drinking (the benefit of not having a hangover :cry: ). I have seen that my desire is stronger in different situations, but I am still able to control my intake, although it is little more than I prefer; however, I am still able to stop.

I am unsure if it really matters about the amount you drink as long as you are drinking in situations that triggers your drinking, or am I wrong? And if you have control, shouldn't stop if you can? For isn't that considered mindful drinking? I surely do not want to keep drinking just because my brain is screaming "FEED ME" and I know I have had enough, or I will regret it in the morning with a hangover or a nal. over. I am putting myself in situations that caused me to drink in the past, but I also have avoided certain situations in fear of not being able to control my drinking (being around my mother-in-law is one of them). I understand if I do not put myself in those situations I am avoiding I always have that strong desire (and maybe problems) and most likely have an issue unless I take the nal. and drink...BUT do I really need to drink like I did before, or could I just have 2 glasses of wine like a normal person and move on in hopes that the extinction process will happen in time?

I also thought that af days were a good thing as long as you are not white knuckling it all the time? Just because I have a moment of weakness and get the urge should I pop that pill and drink? Or should I stay with my commitment of being af? I thought that we had to figure out how to live with al. in our life like a normal person, not turning to al. because it is habit. Like me drinking to help me sleep...I know that drinking doesn't do anything to help sleep, but I still had it in my mind I should drink to help me relax. I had stopped that mind frame a couple of weeks ago, but the tension I felt and that was/is my habit. Should I not let logic in and tell my booze brain NO!

I find it that the response that Dr. Eskapa gave Cheeto was not a yes or no answer. I would have like to have seen an answer that was more "no, you must keep on drinking" or "yes, as long as you are in situations that trigger your drinking, one glass is enough". Instead he goes back to what the book says and drink like you normally would...which doesn't answer the question does it really matter about the amount! Or am I missing something?

Jaba


Brilliant, yes and yes.

The problem comes when I've seen some try TSM and think they have to drink the same amount that they always did.

My interpretation is and always has been 'drink as you feel' - so if you don't want to drink your usual amount, then don't.

I didn't want to drink my usual amount both before and during my very first TSM drink, and nal helped me to immediately reduce although my weekly amount stayed the same. Then I said I don't like drinking 5 days a week, let's have a go at more AF days.

When I say 'forced' I mean an active decision not to drink and I did do things that helped me do that. Whether that's against TSM rules or not I don't care because it helped me and I know it helped others.

Some people on another forum (not C3) say that I wasn't a proper alcoholic, some also say I didn't do TSM properly.

Eskapa says that 1 tablet covers 24 hours, so even if I took my nal in the morning, several hours before because I didn't trust myself to wait once I'd decided to drink (I'd decide then do it) it still sounds like TSM to me.

_________________
Naltrexone Started 20th April 2011

Cravings eliminated Sept 2011
Now fully in control, alcohol no longer bothers me. Chose to go AF from 22nd July 2013.
TSM set me free


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:27 pm
Posts: 1691
There are some excellent posts here in this thread - they have given me a lot of food for thought. I had a period where AF days were easy but am back to them being hard - I am also drinking every day (obviously if I am not having AF days). I am drinking less than before TSM - I was up to 7-8 drinks a night and now am on 4-5 which is better - maybe I am having an extinction burst but if that is the case, how long is it going to last?

SO many of you said really good things that I should comment on - this is a really good thread to come back and read through - not enough time this morning before work to answer each of you that I feel I should. But please know that I appreciate all the posts here .....

hugs, Maggie xx

_________________
Pre Nal 40-45 wk


Month 12: 4 drinks TOTAL (Dec '15)
13: 2 drinks (nearly) for Jan '16 !!!
None since Jan '16 I feel that I can safely say that I am cured!


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:07 pm
Posts: 32
Happy to report no Nal-over. 4 drinks over 3 hours and .25mg. of Nal. Previously, I had over 4 an evening and the Nal-over was derailing!

_________________
Pre-TSM: Avg. 42 | 0 AF
Start: 5/6/15
W1-9: Avg. 27/1 AF
W5-10 No track - No AF
W11-14 No track - 2 AF - Craving gone
W15: 7/6 AF
W16: 7/6 AF
W17: 7/6 AF


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:54 pm
Posts: 1204
Deena: that is wonderful progress. I am very proud of you!! xoxo Newlife

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Newlife
started 3/3/15
Pre-TSM 26 - 30 US Units/week

Month 1 16/wk av 4AF month
2 17/wk av 5 AF
3 18/wk av 6 AF
4 NT
5 NT
6 NT
7 17/wk av 4 AF
8 17/wk av 5 AF
9 13/wk av 5 AF
10 & 11 NT
Beginning tracking again Week 48
Wk 48 18/2 49 14.5/2


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:35 pm
Posts: 1426
Maggie,

No worries. You have a lot going on! And that is good that your drinking is down!


Hikergirl,

That is good news that you didn't have a nal. over. Do you think the water help? What do you think that you did differently that help you NOT to have that nal. over?

Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:35 pm
Posts: 1426
Deena wrote:
I was fine with sparkling water all night and did not give having a drink a thought. Progress!


BRAVO! What progress indeed!


Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:35 pm
Posts: 1426
newlife wrote:
Jaba: I think that maybe feeling "flat " or whatever is the price some have to pay to regain control. Once you feel comfortable then you can reduce your dose or whatever, but don't you feel that you are MUCH better off than you were pre-TSM? Newlife


Newlive,

I had to think about that before I answered it, and it is not because I am not MUCH better off than pre-nal, FOR I AM!

I like how I feel taking the nal. My body doesn't ache, my joints feel better, my vision is better, I do not have headaches, and the list goes on.

I feel better on the nal. than an af day...I do not think that is how it should be. I have that flat feeling with or without the nal. I could take the nal. and not think about drinking...and sometimes I really do not want that drink but I have to because that is the process.

That scares me!

I do know that my sister had fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome and that was one of the reasons she was on so many pain pills. I do have the "pressure points", but there is no concrete evidence for either...there are only "theories" if you might have it. If there was a test, I might have looked into testing years ago, but there isn't. I do not think going on LDN is an option for me at this time. But I think I just might have to seriously consider it for the future once I have this current issue under control.

Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:14 am 
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 1:37 pm
Posts: 353
Right... Alcohol free days should just be a simple choice that you make almost like the choice you make of whether to have another drink or not. If it comes naturally then you know you are getting good results. But if you find yourself fretting over whether or not to have a drink then just have that drink and and chalk it up to yet another valuable lesson in the process of extinction.

Also I read here on the forum that many people are upset with themselves and disappointed and so on for having a night of 4 drinks or anything over their acceptable limit. How about this... Don't have a limit. Each time you drink while on Naltrexone is one step closer to your goal. That's not to say that you should be drinking like you normally did before TSM. If you are drinking like you normally did then something else is wrong. It could be that you need to up your dose of Naltrexone or a variety of other reasons. From what I've read the far majority of people here even after the honeymoon phase are not up to their pre-TSM levels. It does happen to some though and in those cases it seems to me that you may want to exercise a bit of will power and set goals.

Using myself as an example though, prior to TSM I was averaging 12-13 drinks a night. After about the 3rd day on Naltrexone I was down to an average of 3. When I have three drinks it's usually over several hours and it's not enough to wake up with a hangover. It's been 3 months since I have not had a hangover, yay me! But on a few of those days I had as many as 5 drinks. After going from 13 down to 5 I'm not going to be hard on myself. That's a sign of success.

I guess a lot of it has to do with the goals we set for ourselves. When I first found out about TSM my goal was to reduce drinking not eliminate it. If you have set an abstinent goal then you will have more work to do.

I think we have to put our new TSM lives into the context of whats normal (normal meaning non alcoholic). What would a normal person do? I've used my wife as an example before because she is not an alcoholic so she's a good example for me to look at. I've seen her drunk on occasion, that's what normal people do. I've seen her have one glass of wine with dinner and that's it, that's what normal people do. I've seen her have a beer, a glass of wine for dinner, and maybe a bit of port for desert, that's what normal people do. I've seen her not drink anything for a day or for a week, that's what normal people do.

There is nothing wrong with setting goals but in doing so you set the stage up for disappointment and you don't need or deserve that now especially if you have reduced your drinking thanks to TSM. That's a success. So march on. Take your Naltrexone one hour before you drink and carry on.


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 Post subject: Re: Nal-Overs?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:54 pm
Posts: 1204
Ocean, I could not agree with you more!! 100% agree.

Let's all stop beating ourselves up and just get on with this!! It doesn't help, and in my case when I beat myself up it hurt!!

Nothing more to add, because I think this is a near perfect statement of what TSM is all about.

xoxo Newlife

_________________
Newlife
started 3/3/15
Pre-TSM 26 - 30 US Units/week

Month 1 16/wk av 4AF month
2 17/wk av 5 AF
3 18/wk av 6 AF
4 NT
5 NT
6 NT
7 17/wk av 4 AF
8 17/wk av 5 AF
9 13/wk av 5 AF
10 & 11 NT
Beginning tracking again Week 48
Wk 48 18/2 49 14.5/2


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