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 Post subject: Nal + Not Drinking = ? (A wasted pill?)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:10 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Chicago, IL
Hi Dr. Eskapa - I've seen several people ask this question so thought I would post it here.

If we take Nal and then later on don't really have the desire to drink, is it better to drink or is it no determent to the treatment if we don't drink that time? I thought I read somewhere that originally someone (may or may not have been Dr. Sinclair) had his patients taking Nal every day and drinking whenever they wanted to, but he found the pills were just as effective if the patients only took the pills on drinking days. By suggesting this instead of taking the pills everyday, it allowed the treatment to be much more cost effective.

So for those people who have taken the pill with the intention of drinking but then find the craving gone, do you feel it's just as good for them to abstain on that evening and enjoy the lack of craving or will they benefit more (advance their treatment) if they do in fact have a drink?

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Nal + Not Drinking = ? (A wasted pill?)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:39 pm
Posts: 112
Taking naltrexone followed by abstinence will not hurt you if you do so occassionally.

However, taking naltrexone continuously with abstinence leads to something called 'receptor up-regulation' - making your opioid system more susceptible to reinforcement coming from the endorphins released when you do drink especially if you have been on naltrexone + abstinence then drink without naltrexone coverage. In other words, if you take naltrexone with abstinence then stop taking it and drink you will get a super jolt of reinforcement to the opioid system thereby increasing subsequent craving:

See this from The Cure for Alcoholism:

Pharmacologically Enhanced Reinforcement of Healthy Alternative Behaviors

Patients should be told that, while they are on naltrexone, they should avoid behaviors other than alcohol drinking that release endorphins. Otherwise, these other behaviors can also be weakened, which would be detrimental. Instead, we would like to have the other behaviors strengthened so they can compete with alcohol drinking and help fill the void as drinking is extinguished. This is made possible by practicing these alternative behaviors during pauses in naltrexone treatment.
The body reacts to having the opioid receptors blocked by naltrexone by increasing the number of these receptors, that is, up-regulation. This has now been shown in various species, including human beings. So long as the naltrexone is present, there is no effect, but for a period of several days after stopping naltrexone the patient is super-sensitive to endorphins. Behaviors that release endorphins will produce enhanced reinforcement during this period. It is very important that patients do not drink alcohol during pauses in naltrexone treatment. Although there should be pauses in naltrexone administration, patients should practice healthy alternative behaviors that release endorphins during these pauses.
In practice, patients at the beginning of treatment are asked to make a list of behaviors that they find pleasant, and then avoid tak﷓

ing part in those that release endorphins while on naltrexone. The physician can help identify which behaviors release endorphins. Then, after a few weeks of drinking alcohol while on naltrexone, the patient is advised to have a weekend without naltrexone and without alcohol, starting on Friday evening. (If the patient then finds the craving is too strong, the pause should be postponed and naltrexone resumed immediately.) Saturday is a washout day. On Sunday afternoon, still with no alcohol and no naltrexone, the patient actively chooses to take part in one or more of the healthy alternative behaviors. Usually, patients report that doing so is extremely pleasant. On Monday, the patient can go back to naltrexone and drinking.
Subsequently, this procedure should be repeated over and over, with the number of days off of naltrexone increased progressively, and the variety of alternative healthy behaviors expanded. Eventually, the periods off of naltrexone and drinking expand to fill most or all of the week.
Naltrexone should not be administered with a specified fixed time limit. If naltrexone is provided, say, for only three months, most patients will improve for that period of time, and then afterward relearn the drinking behavior. Within a few months, they will be back to where they started. Having just a short pause in drinking may be beneficial for the liver, but otherwise has little impact on the health of the individual. Naltrexone is a lifetime commitment. The commitment consists generally, however, of just carrying the pill around all the time just in case the patient drinks.


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 Post subject: Seeking clarification.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:47 am
Posts: 89
Location: Somewhere, embracing the infinite.
[post deleted by author]


Last edited by BuenaVista on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking clarification.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:20 am 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 6:52 am
Posts: 1003
Location: England
BuenaVista wrote:
Dr. Eskapa, I'm grateful for your advocacy and leadership with TSM.

I'm starting your regime this week. My objective is total alcohol abstinence, or private abstinence with the occasional social drink. I believe I understand your program requirements and have studied your treatment protocol carefully. I note your quote from the book, above.

In respect of *not* performing endorphin-releasing activities while taking NAL and training myself off alcohol I assume that this really requires that I be abstinent sexually until I can confidently pass 48 hours without taking NAL/drinking. Same is true for heavy exercise and perhaps preparing and consuming a good meal.

Do I understand your direction properly? I am in a sexually-active relationship, I do exercise (when I'm not too hungover), and (when I'm not too loaded) I do cook and eat elaborate meals. If this is the bad news -- notably, I need to abstain from other endorphin-releasing activities, namely sex, anytime I have consumed NAL within 36 hours -- to accompany the good news of a possible cure for alcohol compulsions, I can take it. Anecdotally, others have said here that blending these activities has not damaged their enjoyment of them. But we who are alcohol-dependent can rationalize *anything.*

I wish to follow the program that the clinical trials demonstrated to work best, specifically and exactly. If that means not having sex or lifting for three months, or four months, until I can rack up alcohol-free days and just be a guy with an emergency NAL pill on his key chain ... oh well. Time to face facts. I think I can handle it. I don't really have a choice.

Please don't be frustrated with my question as I understand your text to mean just that. And I must transition off alcohol. Everything else is secondary, and presumably can be restored in some fashion in the future, after I'm clean.

Thank you for everything. I am hopeful: I feel like a prisoner who just got moved to a new cell -- from a windowless cell to a new one with a window and sunlight and offering a view of a beautiful landscape I might one day traverse.


Yes this is the recommended way however I couldn't stop some of the 'pleasurable' activities you list because they form part of my vocation.

I can say just carrying on as normal with other activities did not harm my success in any area one bit.

_________________
Naltrexone Started 20th April 2011

Cravings eliminated Sept 2011
Now fully in control, alcohol no longer bothers me. Chose to go AF from 22nd July 2013.
TSM set me free


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 Post subject: Re: Nal + Not Drinking = ? (A wasted pill?)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:47 am
Posts: 89
Location: Somewhere, embracing the infinite.
Thank you.

_________________
Initiated TSM 11 August 2013

Grateful for Sinclair, Eskapa, this community, and the NAL.


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 Post subject: Re: Nal + Not Drinking = ? (A wasted pill?)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:26 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Northwest U.S.
I agree with UKB, I don't think you have to give up any normal activities. I don't have much appetite, but when I have good food, I still enjoy it, and I haven't noticed any difference in how I feel about going for a bike ride; I'm quite motivated to put positive things back in my life. Maybe I wouldn't attempt a day-long hike or sky-diving until I can put a couple of AF days together. Unfortunately, since I'm not involved with a partner right now, I can't speak to the sexual aspect.

_________________
Pre-TSM: 70-105/week. Back after a 4-year hiatus. Started back on TSM Feb. 2017.

Now...

May 2017: average 14-20 (per week)


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