Hi this time, I'm not suggesting abstinence at all. getting away from the high alcohol usage seems to help the TSM work better, no matter what your ultimate goal is.

I never used willpower or white knuckling, or forced AF days. Since I wanted to end up drinking infrequently and under control, I started working at doing that while doing TSM. It was a matter of being mindful, and I discovered it's a much better way to live life without the burden of being besotted with alcohol all the time.

The issue I had was trying to imagine a life without alcohol each and every day, and lots of it. I work more than full-time, I have many hobbies and a full life, but somehow I managed to fill each day with alcohol no matter what. When I started doing TSM, I couldn't imagine how the hell I would fill the time I used to spend drinking. A big void!

Well as others have attested here, indifference and not caring about alcohol can and does occur. I'm still having some trouble not thinking about it all, but it is dramatically better than before When you spend a good many years drinking all the time, and focusing on it, that just doesn't go away in a hurry.

I still say, though if you don't think the naltrexone alone is working what would the alternatives be. Forced abstinence comes to mind, but I have observed
people that do that, and I see they are are still struggling every single day, and completely focused on alcohol, despite saying they are free of it. I think it's absolutely true that denying yourself something that you really want, is going to increase the craving.

Besides the moderation management, there's some things like urge surfing, mindfulness, etc., that I found really helpful in getting away from the obsession

I didn't see any other way to approach it except the 12 step model, which I just couldn't do.

As you are I'm sure aware, those in the abstinent crowd think that people using the Sinclair method are Looney Tunes. All we are doing is using it as an excuse to drink, and deluding ourselves, or "dry drunks" or whatever

If I saw great successes and happiness on those that follow moderation techniques alone, medication alone, or complete abstinence, I'd join whatever team was winning.

I absolutely do not see that, with any of the above, so I decided for myself what to do.

Guapo and plantprO

Powerful stuff, lots to think over but I will get back to my weekly progress and look back in awe someday. Thank you both in taking the time to listen to me.

John

it a good question you asked thistime. first let me say that I have seen enough of what TSM can do for me so that I know I will do it for as long as I continue to drink. I'm sitting here having an AF evening, my numbers are way down from pre TSM levels, and I have every reason to believe that given time it will progress to a state of indifference. My question is what will I choose to do when I reach that state of indifference? How will I handle it? When confronted with indifference will I have the knowledge and state of mind to choose what is best for me? I sure hope so. Naltrexone will help me to reach indifference, of that I have absolutely no doubt (I'm already partway there), but it won't grant me wisdom.

Its a sad but true fact that there are a lot of posts here on the board from people who say TSM helped them to kick the damn monkey off their back, but then backslid to their addiction. So I guess my question is how do I prevent that from happening to me? I can commit myself to TSM for the rest of my life if I continue to drink, which I have done, but I also think it's in my best interests make this an a journey of self exploration, and take a hard look at what happened to me and why. Sure part of that is genetic but part of it is personal and psychological.

Anyway, that is my rationale for looking into MM. I have never been to a meeting of any kind or to rehab, so this will be completely new to me. My plan is to take what I like and leave the rest. I'm not looking for willpower skills, just looking for more tools to work with so that i can handle indifference wisely.

FYI,
For those on here who might be discouraged or skeptical of the method.
Here are pre and post TSM numbers, after November 2013, was not focused on following protocol correctly, but took NAL "most of the time"

2013

May 235
June 240
July 213
Aug 126 (Started TSM)
Sept 78
Oct 94
Nov 112
Dec 125 (Drank thru TSM, didn't always follow GR !!)

2014

Jan-Feb ~ 140 each
March 22 (Added other measures such as MM, followed GR)
April 20
May 18
June 16
July 22
Aug 31.5
September 15
Oct 13
Nov 11
Dec 4

Now have NO cravings, little or no interest in alcohol, (indifference you might say). Don't know if I'll stay at this level or drink even less, either way is fine.

Here is a graph:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/130044135 ... 028835765/

That's a huge success Guapo, congratulation, Applause.

Week 10

Continue to do follow the golden rule.


I'm averaging 7 USA units per night, as I've stated here recently, pushing for the AF days is still difficult but ive decided to research moderation management to see if there's some extra tools should I want to use them, any ideas that have worked for others welcome please?

The amount of units per session is down although I have the occasional slip, Friday night I had six beers and then decided to have a glass of white wine, something I don't normally drink. Well half way through pouring the wine my wife came into the room and I ended up hiding the bottle behind the sofa. Of course she saw me and she waited until the next day to ask why I felt I had to hide stuff. Really embarrassed and remorsful.


Started 7 October 2014

Pre TSM = 70+ USA units
Week 1. 48
Week 2. 45 (1AF day)
Week 3. 50
Week 4. 54
Week 5. 56
Week 6. 56
Week 7. 60
Week 8. 58
Week 9. 58
Week 10. 50

Guapo

March 22 (Added other measures such as MM, followed GR)

What's GR please?

Golden Rule?

hello thistime

your thread is a good read at the moment, lots of good ideas

Some moderation tips that worked for me when I was pregnant and had to drastically cut back on drinking:

1) drop a little at a time (ie, one drink fewer per day, then stabilize at that level for a few days, then drop another drink)
2) slow down and really enjoy the drink in front of you
3) find alternate things to drink- I found cranberry juice, orange juice, and mineral water to be a nice break from tap water .
4) always make sure to have a glass of water available alongside the wine, and each sip, ask myself "do I really want wine, or am I just thirsty?" (if just thirsty, drink water)

(in case anyone was wondering, yes, I was able to go AF during pregnancy, but the cravings were still there. I want to become indifferant to alcohol, which is why I'm using TSM. Also, a just-implanted embryo is actually quite resistant to the effects of alcohol, so the few glasses of wine I had shortly after finding that I was pregnant were not harmful in any way).