Standing applause! All I can say is wow. Well said....... I believe you have a spark in you that needs to be fanned into a burning flame. Can't wait to see what manifests if you continue on with your current thoughts and actions. It maybe the start of a seedbed or movement that gets us out of the dark ages. It could help millions and way past due. Good luck. Peace

"2) Does an alcoholic HAVE to research, seek out, design, choose, run, be the only one of the team of their own recovery in order for it to be a recovery? (Why doesn't anyone ever say the cancer patient has to choose their own recovery and call the chemo place themselves to book the appointment and drive themselves there etc etc etc?) "

Unfortunately yes, unless you wish to swallow 12 step koolaid (Sorry, I mean dogma). I'm only here BECAUSE I researched and learned and found this way.

Please remember, most Medical Professionals view alcohol abuse as a selfish choice, and a moral failing. I think this comes from the terrifically high relapse rates, and the revolving door of failed treatment (especially in the ER setting). Most mainstream physicians want nothing to do with alcoholics for this reason. I am guessing only a tiny percentage even know of Nalrexone for Alcohol Abuse.

There are only a few Naltrexone friendly clinics in the US, and some of those use it only with abstinence !!!

Activity on this board is not much different than when it started in 2009. Any and all efforts to disseminate TSM are going to help

CFA your excellent and thought provoking post has me thinking about something that has been on my mind lately, and that is how our language regarding alcohol use has become hopelessly skewed. To illustrate my point, I'll come right out and say that I find words like high bottom drunk, low bottom dunk, white knuckle drunk, TSM drunk, or just plain old noun "drunk" to be disparaging and offensive. They certainly aren't medical terms and they appear to be intentionally used to put people on the defensive , or simply to kick them into the proverbial sh$t-hole. Apparently there are a lot of people who think this is a necessary step to recovery. You can't claw your way out if you aren't in there good and deep. From where I'm standing, looking for a science-based, rational, secular solution supported by modern medicine, such terms are worse than useless, they are harmful.

The negative influence runs deep, and I think the words alcoholic and alcoholism have also lost their usefulness. They aren't directly offensive perhaps, but as the recent CDC report points out they are all too often misused and misunderstood. More importantly, they are hopelessly intertwined with the "dogma" Guapo refers to. Phrases like "Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic" are entrenched in the discussion to such an extent that the words lose their useful meaning. The words are handed back and forth from the medical to the vernacular like a football and have been hopelessly blurred. Hell, at this point I don't have a clue if I'm an alcoholic or not, and don't really care. What I do know that I have an Alcohol Use Disorder, and that I should either quit using alcohol or learn to use my stop button.

Some might say that this is simply semantics and hair splitting but I disagree. Language is fundamental to any meaningful conversation, and a discussion of TSM requires accuracy. Anyway, time and science are on the side of TSM and other medical advancements. The science will eventually win out, and your efforts are being expended on the right side of the fence.

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I did attend a 12 step meeting, and like you, didn't agree at all with the labeling. It's a great feeling to discover ways to fix this that don't involve following cult thinking that relies on guilt, shame, loss of control, being permanently diseased, and loss of self-esteem.

I like to see success stories on TSM, and there are many.

Two thoughts here...
(1) I think aversion can be a good tool in the battle against alcohol addiction. Keep in mind that Schick Schadel, which seems to work for quite a few people, works primarily via aversion (you drink large amounts of alcohol, then are given an emetic and throw up violently, time after time). The last time I drank was so powerful (and bad) an experience that I'm near 300 days with zero drinks and zero cravings...all from first getting drunk and then taking a 50mg Naltrexone. It would be curious to see if they have ever tried that protocol on the alcoholic rats.

(2) All these disease / free will questions are interesting and, ultimately, will remain an enigma. If it's a disease, it's NOT like cancer, which is generally incurable. Taking your example of diabetes, I'd say it's similar to Type 2 Diabetes that would be brought on by a patient's choices -- poor diet, no exercise, excess fat, etc... During the early to mid stages of diabetes, it is reversible and even curable via diet and lifestyle changes, just as alcohol addiction is in the hands of the "diseased." It's also very hard to do; diabetics I've worked with often become obsessed with starches and sugar, partly because they've been told they can't have it. They'll sneak
candy bars and junk food into the hospital, just as an alcohol addict will sneak booze. If you've ever tried to "eat clean" for an extended period of time, you know how hard it is. Once they reach the latter stages and become dependent on insulin, then there is
no cure or reversing possible. This would be similar to when a drinker gets cirrhosis (I'm watching a 48 year old right now dying of cirrhosis). At that point, alcoholism sort of cures itself. The drinker often never touches it again because, being sick, they lose their desire for such pleasures and the consequences become too obvious and dire.

Anyway, you definitely have tough choices to make. The fact that he can go 1-2 months with no drinking shows he's really not that physically dependent on it. However, with people that routinely go long stretches like that, you'll never be able to say, "Whew, finally he's stopped," because you never know when the next ridiculous binge will start. Even though I personally think it's unhealthy for a husband to be babied by his wife, I suppose one way you could guarantee his compliance is to get a breathalyzer on Amazon. When he gets home from work, make him blow a 0.0, then give him the pill and make sure he swallows it. Then, let him have at it. This would definitely be a workable solution, similar to a wife checking a man's blood sugar and making sure he takes his Metformin. As time goes on and he drinks less and less (and maybe exercises), he'll probably start to balance out his hormones (which are probably too high on estrogen, and too low on testosterone, making him weak, emotional, unconfident, and unmotivated to be awesome) and start to take more initiative himself. At some point, maybe he'll realize that a man shouldn't have to live like this, and he can begin to fly on his own.

CFA, I just want to applaud you for your dedication to your husband. He is fortunate to have you, and it is clear how much you care about him. Keep those lines of communication open between the two of you.

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This is a very active thread indeed. I don't believe there is a direct link to Naltrexone and the vomiting/sickness. There was most likely and interaction issue that could not be blamed on any one thing. I too was a binge drinker but, I was completely and solely motivated to stop. It doesn't sound, as of this moment, your SO is self invested in their own cure. This could change at any minute. I think the main issue people run into is a failure to follow the protocol and not deviate one iota. In my experience, I had to deliberately become a daily drinking to realize success which was a very rocky road indeed. In my case it meant almost 6 months of misery and daily drinking in order to "retrain the brain" so-to-speak but, thanks to the universal architect I am reaching the end. Those neuropathways are slowly becoming dirt roads instead of super highways. I had to kind laugh at the earlier comment regarding rational recovery because, after you have experienced the dull ineffective drone of AA then switch to the angry, aggressive "I am the all powerful OZ and I am going to beat myself down with a stick!!" of Rational Recovery, you are experiencing opposite sides of the same coin. And at the end of either one still has not addressed the root cause. Folks, this is not a behavioral or moral issue. It is a chemical, biological and scientific issue. I was abstinent for 12 years once and, the monster (genetically endowed propensity) was still lurking. My advice to users that are committed to their health, read Eskapa, follow the protocol religiously, be brave, be patient and stay the course to success. If you deviate from this then all bets are off. My advice to SO's, if you see your SO not complying then they have no skin in the game and you can make your own choice at that point. This was the case with my sister and her husband. He was always playing a game and had no intention of getting well. Good luck and Namaste!

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