You are doing great thistime and following the Golden Rule is ALL we need to do per TSM, we all will be successful if we stay the course I know it! I gotcha about Christmas time and how our numbers may not fall in or after the 8 week mark but we are headed in the right direction and that is more than I can say from this time last year when I was pretty much hopeless about my addiction.
Glad we can follow each other as we are at about the same place in TSM. Thanks for posting!

hello there,

same same same same same as you!!! very little change in numbers....BUT I do feel a difference if I am honest, not the blinding light difference my lazy cure myself tomorrow self wants but a difference none the less and I will hold onto that thankyou very much!

keep going

Glad you had success with your Doc!

sounds like you're doing well - keep up the good work!

thanks for the updates - finding these progress threads from people who are a bit in front of me very helpful & encouraging

-badger

A week of confusions, seeing many others still struggling.

The week started with good cheer, but a recurring theme is bugging me, early result by following the TSM golden rule ( nal 1 hour before and then drink as normal) seem to be few and far between. In particular regarding the folk who have been following TSM for the past 8+ weeks.

Not that early results are important in it self because I think there's a certain amount of patience needed and that is well understood by the posts on here.

However there seems to be more and more advise to merge TSM with moderation management. I'm not against moderation management although personally I struggle to do it. I'm what the AA would call a weak willed drunk I think.

What confuses me is that neither Dr Sinclair or Dr Escapa use moderation management advise when setting out how TSM should be undertaken. If I've understood correctly TSM works in the subconscious using what Sinclair aptly calls pharmaceutical extinction.

So following the golden rule at least 80% of us folk following TSM should be cured (I understand that this has different meanings to different people) but I'll settle for some control over my drinking and a little indifference to the poison thrown in for good measure.

The reason I'm rambling on, is that if moderation management does go hand in hand with TSM then many folk who might have found a cure will be left stranded or even doomed to failure and all the bloody ramifications that would have on their lives.

I'm getting my prescription on the UK National Health Service. There is no advice on MM. Just take the pill and wait 3/6 months.

If MM is going to help then it needs to be added to future trials verses trials with out MM.

Okay.

Our goal here is to control drinking. Despite what the book says, my review of this forum since 2009 reveals a much less than 80% success rate.

Why, I don't know, but I suspect people become frustrated with lack of results, and just give up. Maintaining faith in something that doesn't seem to be doing anything seems like willpower as well.

The goal here is to reduce drinking to manageable levels, whatever that means to you, whether drinking much less, or not drinking at all. That becomes clear to each person as they go through the process of Extinguishing problem drinking.

Nobody's goal is to drink 10 drinks at a setting, or 50 or more units in a week. That's what we are all trying to get away from.

When drinking daily, and large amounts, your mind is not functioning well. If that is the case, wouldn't steps to limit the amount of drinking, go hand-in-hand with getting the problem under control. Besides understanding your drinking, and getting a handle on it, you're also clearing your mind, and healing in that fashion as well. It's very clear, that one's view of alcohol, and desire to drink change dramatically once you quit drinking excessively.

Moderation, is nothing more than suggestions to drink in a saneand reasonable fashion. It's up to you how to interpret that.

Eskapa and Sinclair do not speak to anything other than taking the pill for the "cure". The frustration on this site is almost palpable, as so many people don't seem to be getting anywhere.

There are no studies linking moderation with TSM. However, just taking a pill and doing absolutely nothing sounds fanciful.this is tried with baclofen, Antabuse, campral and other medications, none have shown great results.

I know TSM works, I've seen it work here, and it works for me.if it's working for you without any other efforts, insights or techniques, great. If not, and you're frustrated, why not add some other tools such as moderation.

What are the alternatives if this doesn't work? Twelve-step programs, baclofen, Antabuse, going back to the way you were? I know this is a fantastic method, and leaves us completely in control. For that reason, I wanted to do everything I could to make it work, and it did.

Guapo

Thanks for your detailed reply, do you subscribe to the view that TSM will work for the many given full compliance and time. Or MM is a necessity in conjunction with TSM.

I may well try doing some research into moderation if things continue as they are, I hope what you are saying is that TSM will give such techniques a better chance of success because unfortunately in the past my attempts to moderate have all ended back where I started. I have had some success with weeks or even months with no drinking then limiting the number of day I drink in any one week, limiting drinks per session and introducing alternates to alcohol.

Over the long term none of these have lasted so I know for me abstinence is the answer if I could just get the constant fascination with drinking out of my mind.

One thing that Sinclair does explain, is that forced abstainence only increases cravings and this is where TSM comes into its own. This makes a great deal of sense in my own experience.

Kind Regards

John

Stay the course thistime. I dare you or anyone to prove me wrong. Follow the Golden rule without exception, monitor your results daily and report back at least weekly to be held accountable. I have walked the path and I know it. I've kept track and journaled it real time so there's no deceptive illusions or faulty memories of what was occurring. My opinion is most fail because they give up. TSM advocates moderation will become automatic. Just as you learned to not stick your hand in a fire. You will relearn what alcohol has done to you and avoid the misuse of it. When YOU can see it clearly for what it is and what it's done. You will be freed of its spell. I'm 8 months into it and it continues to get stronger and more beneficial. What's it going to be like in a year or year and a half? I'll let my journal decide that but there's no way I would ever go back. I believe we are participating in the beginning of a new science that will change the way we look at diseases and problems. In a way, we didn't create this disease of alcoholism like we've been told. So the way out of it isn't by willpower but by the science of extinction. Peace.

plantprO

I'm definitely going to stay the course, I'm just confused how much additional effort I need to apply. It clear that no end of moderation can't harm the process, but if your problem is lack of willpower, however pathetic that seems, then it just difficult. That all.

thistime wrote None, you helped create your problem. What makes you think you can help? Your helping will always be tainted with the side of you that created it. Let the science work and be patience. Your willpower will come back and you will be given another chance. Why not work your willpower on a positive endeavor not related to your drinking? Let the nal have full control of your drinking. It's that easy, trust it.