I don't know. I've said some relatively offensive things and have never been edited, to my knowledge. Maybe you're just more subversive.

Nothing was either deleted or edited. I just split the (rather long) new topic into a separate . . . well, topic. A new topic for the new topic.

May I take a cynical point of view here? If you think then maybe you're not cured? If you were cured - ie, indifferent to alcohol - why would "never again" be too bold?

I'm not trying to be a dick here. I just have some doubts about some of the claims made here, and would love to hear others' points of view.

FWIW - I count myself as one of the "cured" ...

c

Because I don't expect to die until perhaps 85, and I'm not willing to say for sure that I won't drink alcohol for the next four decades. That's a long time.

I feel quite comfortable saying that, e.g., I will not adopt a child this year. That is not happenin'. Never adopt a second child? Well, I have no plans in that direction, but four decades is a long time. All kinds of stuff could happen.

Never is a very long time. I wont say never either, its too much pressure. Too much to commit to. I wont even sign a contract for a cell phone.

I just take things as they come and dont give it much thought. It looks like Im settling into a 2 drink a month pattern. Im on day 22, no cravings. Maybe next week I will, maybe I wont.

android... I always think it's a good idea to put "cured" in quotes when possible, because it is a pretty loaded word. The first problem is, it's hard to define what "cured" means relative to alcohol. "The Cure For Alcoholism" absolutely never makes the claim that being cured means you'll be so indifferent to alcohol that you will never drink again. Recall, its definition is much more modest, namely, you'll be able to drink at "normal" WHO levels of no more than 5 drinks a day, 24 a week.

I don't think anything short of a lobotomy can completely wipe the slate clean in our brains when it comes to alcohol. We can't have a new tabula rosa upon which to approach life. It will always be there as a real possibility, whereas, say, methamphetamine, will likely never be in my brain as a real possibility.

I know for a fact, based on my personal experimentation, that some things are just way better after a drink or two or three (e.g. hanging out at a beach bar, walking around the French Quarter of New Orleans, high school reunions, etc...). These things will always be better for me after a few drinks, but I can choose to drink then or not. At this point in life, I'm currently choosing abstinence, but I can't say for sure that I will always do that. I know it's partly just semantics.

BTW, apart from this circle, I never think of myself as "cured" of alcoholism. That word never crosses my mind. I generally think something like, "I used to be unable to stop daily drinking, now I can go long stretches without alcohol."

Agreed BarryB.

I've never met anyone who's "cured" of PTSD, either. I know a lot of people who cope pretty well, however, which works for everybody.

TSM/Eskapa explicitly notes that the unlearned drinking behavior will return if alcohol is consumed without naltrexone. So I struggle to call the suppression (not elimination) of interest in alcohol, via nal, to be a "cure" (since the impulse recedes but still exists in an idle state). I can't come up with a one-word alternative, though, and "cure" is probably as good as any. Perhaps "remission" adds some value, but that probably has too much specific meaning for the medical professionals. I have to use a sentence to describe Naltrexone to friends: "It's an opiate antagonist that pharmacologically extinguishes the pleasure-driven impulse to consume alcohol." Quite a mouthful.

A big deficiency in the AA framework for alcohol addiction discussions, in my view, is that one is supposed to admit to a condemned lifetime of constant battle against the disease. TSM offers data that one can at least "turn the page." I am so grateful for this TSM program and the drug.

All,

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it. And Barry - sorry about hijacking your thread.

We might have to agree to disagree here. I haven't read the book for a few years now, but IIRC the "cure" claim is not modest at all. It's on the front cover in bold, it's all the way through. Even on this site, we have a "cured" thread. If you're saying I have misunderstood what Eskapa et al mean by cured, I'll take that onboard, and reconsider ....

Just for the record, I'll never drink again. Sure, I'm only human, and may slip up, but I still remember all the harm alcohol caused in my life, and if I never drink again I can never end up back there.

Good luck to you all. May you never slip up ....

c

Hello, everyone. Just a quick update on things. First, I had a weird experience as I loaded about 12 years of digital photos onto the cloud -- vacations, holidays, family gatherings, special events. I kid you not, I recall them all and was "under the influence" in at least 90% of them. In some, I remember being completely sh*t-faced, although I don't look it in the pictures. In others, I remembered exactly what, when, and how I drank before or during the event. Again, I wasn't really "sad" about it, but it was kind of surreal.

OK, so back to my drinking. On day 70 AF now. I officially told my wife (after she offered me a beer) that, "I'm going for 100." Again, no intention to drink on day 101, but it's an obtainable goal at this point. I'm toying with the idea of doing a "one year alcohol fast" so that I can go through all the year's rhythms and routines sober. For example, I haven't had an alcohol free Christmas Eve in about 28 years; nor have I gone to the beach without drinking in the same amount of time. The long string of AF days has felt sort of "healing" for me, as in healing my brain and its reactions to alcohol triggers. Distance (measured in time) is good at this point.

Barry,

I like your strategy. Going for an even 100 from where you are isn't too much of a stretch, but is still a goal to shoot for. I think I am at the stage where I am going to have to force the AF days and start setting similar (albeit shorter) goals and hopefully achieve the healing from the triggers that you speak of above. I still struggle with those triggers and have just wanted them to go away. Unfortunately, after 4 years of attempting sobriety and over a year on TSM I have come to the conclusion that I have not found the magic bullet to make them go away. TSM has helped overcome those cravings, but it certainly hasn't stopped them for me. For me there is going to be a certain amount of heavy lifting to get to long term sobriety. I'm looking forward to hearing about your progress. Good luck!