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 Post subject: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:24 am
Posts: 14
Hi. Concerned spouse here.

I came across a Claudia Christian video on the internet while looking for "alternatives" to AA and the total abstinence model. After a lot of internet browsing I happened across this forum. I have been reading here and some other sites for weeks trying to gain a greater understanding of TSM.

My spouse listened while I explained it to him and as I told him of success stories I'd read or watched on video. He agreed it was worth a try and has ordered it online. It's not yet arrived. We both agreed that even *if* our doctor were to prescribe it, its preferable not to have it on his medical records.

Like some others, I am nervous about this model. A problem drinker being encourage to drink? Unthinkable to me just a few short months ago! Yet, I have to say...I am a convert now to the idea of TSM. Then again, until recently I didn't know there even was an alternative to abstinence or the 12 step model! I seriously thought there was only staying in your issue or stopping through sheer willpower. Antabuse (sp?) was the only medicinal approach I'd ever heard of and my spouse was adamant that he would not try that.

Further, I didn't ever think about problem drinking as being on a continuum. I, erroneously, thought the issue was more black and white than it appears to me now to actually be. You're either addicted or you're not. I've since changed my views on that as well. I can't say my husband is an alcoholic or not. He says he is not. But admits its become a problem. He lost his exec job of 25 years...due in part to alcohol abuse, so his admittance came with that. That was 4 months ago. We've been living on our savings since that time (ouch!)...and spent the first 3 months of that 4 trying to get him to attend meetings or rehab...and him resisting. He has alternated between trying to be abstinent and trying to be moderate.

I see it now as wasted time. Precious time, wasted. Had we known about this alternative, he could already be progressing thru TSM if it turns out he's a viable candidate. So if this works for him, I will become a mouthpiece for this method whenever I can. I have already told quite a few people about it..but just in casual conversation, not relative to my own husband. (we've only told his immediate family about his issue and are trying to protect his health privacy as well as his reputation in his industry. Its a small world, eh?) Just saying to people "hey, did you know there is a medicine that one can take to....?" Not one person I've told has ever heard of TSM or Naltrexone. I've used being a B5 fan of Claudia's as my intro into how I even found out about TSM.

Since we, as a couple, have committed to trying this method, I find I am vacillating between hanging all my hopes on it working..or being scared to death that it won't.

I've attended Al Anon online and in person meetings. Its not for me. There is a lot of good in that group and a lot of good and well meaning people there. But for a large variety of reasons, its not for me. I personally see this as a medical problem...and problem of the body that affects the mind, not the other way around. I also don't see it as "his problem" alone to solve. If he were afflicted with anything else (as he has been) I'd be doing all I could to help him find the best doctors, treatments and basically helping him help himself. What I never could wrap my head around was this: If alcohol causes his brain to malfunction...how can I leave him to "his side of the street" all alone? I mean why *wouldn't* I help him? My head and thinking are crystal clear. If he had alzheimers or any other brain altering disorder, would I say "thats your problem, you have to fix it yourself"? I think not. If that makes me codependent or whatever by AA standards, I can live with that. I know my husbands character. He's a very good man and does not have a "spiritual" problem.

In my husbands case, the drinking problem followed a long, protracted domino effect illness. Precipitated by prescription meds that went horribly wrong (statins and ace inhibitors and proton pump inhibitors.. a severe SIBO infection, metabolic acidosis, etc)...his health declined over many months and we've spent a fortune in specialists and tests. He has since recovered from most of that after being removed from all the medicines and having a supplements program to replace and rebalance much of what he'd lost during the illness.

The last 4 months of the 9 month illness however, he found himself having extreme cravings for particular foods. Most of them heavily carb laden..mostly junk food (which he rarely *ever* ate)...and also sweets/desserts, which he also rarely *ever* ate!). It was all quite bizarre, the sudden cravings for things he'd never had an interest in before. Well, along with that..had come cravings for alcohol as well. But while he had no problem discussing his new found cravings for certain foods...he never told anyone (doctors, myself, etc) that there was also an alcohol craving. He felt some shame in that for whatever reason. It quickly spiraled out of control, as these things sometimes do.

Having always been a social drinker, "normal" if you will, something drastic had changed. We aren't teetotalers or fundy religious or whatever, and he's always had a drink in the open. But he started drinking in private (mostly in the garage) and then denying having drank. From the spouse side of things, it was very bizarre and concerning because I couldn't understand *why* he would deny having a drink to me? After all, I'd never had an objection before to his having a drink. He didn't abuse it. But I came to find out that he was hiding it and denying because he'd drank it due to a craving...which is a different animal.

So my first approach was to re-build our trust. I love this man, deeply..and have been with him for 26 years. I would not leave him for being a drinker, a problem drinker or even an alcoholic. I know its not something he chose or would choose. However, I wouldn't be able to stay in a marriage that had dishonesty. Lying about it and hiding it and such. So...I basically told him that if we could have honesty and he commit to never ever drive the car after drinking ...we could get through this together, even if it means he would remain a problem drinker. As long as we have honesty and safety, I'll stay by his side. In sickness and in health, right? Its helped and he now drinks openly when he does drink, and tells the truth if asked if he has been drinking. He does it at home and doesn't drive the car if he has. This alone has made a big difference. I think him seeing that I accept him for who he is, even if that includes " alcoholic", has been helpful in some small measure for our marriage.

That's where we stand today. In it together...and hoping for a change. TSM may or may not be a "cure"...but if it helps restore him to a man who doesn't "crave" alcohol...it would be a very big deal in our lives. Wishing the best for all of you and ask the same in return.

Btw...those Weekly Progress threads have been a HUGE help to us. You can't know just how much. I'm going to guess Im not alone in being a silent reader of those.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:57 pm
Posts: 897
You are giving my husband some serious competition for the Awesomest Spouse Award. :)

FWIW, your husband sounds like a great TSM candidate. His biggest trouble is the actual craving (as opposed to, e.g., escapism), and he also developed a mad craving for sweets. Those are signs that he has exactly the sort of problem that TSM is great at fixing. There are no guarantees, of course, but he sure doesn't sound like one of the unfortunate 10% based on what you've said here.

This forum has had other posts from concerned spouses (and concerned parents and whatnot), but they tend to flit in and out, so there's not as much direct support as there is for drinkers. We'll all pull for him and for you, though. We generally all pull for each other against this crazy condition.

Antabuse doesn't have a great track record. As the cravings get more intense, the drinker usually just stops taking the Antabuse in order to be able to drink. It does help some people, though.

Welcome to the forum.

_________________
Pre-TSM: 50 USA units/week
Began TSM Oct. 28th 2013. Cured on Dec. 4th 2013.

I'm bloggin' it up! Check out Naltrexone Key:
http://naltrexonekey.blogspot.com/
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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:39 am
Posts: 121
gvk2005. Great post. Agreed that you sound like you're handling this thing perfectly. A marriage like that is a beautiful thing. Like your husband, I developed into a secret drinker. I'd drink one in the open, six on the side of the garage. I did it partly to protect my wife -- I didn't want her married to an alcoholic (or, think she was married to one!). I also have a wicked sweet tooth, but I've always had that. It's interesting about the sudden cravings. I've heard certain steroids can give someone an insatiable hunger, but I've never heard to anything causing insatiable cravings. Doesn't matter, really. It is what it is.

It sucks about his career, too. That just compounds the depression and desire-to-drink in a vicious cycle.

One bit of practical advice would be to get him onto this forum to share his story. I and many others have found great therapeutic success just in writing things down, even though there are only a handful of people who will read it (I've compared this forum to a small room with 10 folding chairs and a stinky coffee pot). He can fudge a fact here and there to make it totally anonymous. As weird as it sounds, if I know that I'll have to admit drinking failures to random people on this site, I'm less likely to cheat (even though I could lie). It's purely a psychological trick taking advantage of our social nature, but it works wonders for me.

If you feel like sharing more, here are some questions...
*What, when, and how much does he currently drink?
*Has he gained weight through this whole shebang? If so, how much could he "stand to lose"?
*When he drinks, is it visibly obvious, or is he really good at hiding it? (I got drunk pretty much every night off and after my confession, my wife said, "I never saw you drunk." I'm that good!).

Anyway, try to get him on here. It's an extremely non-judgmental crowd.

_________________
30+ Years of Compulsive, Secret Drinking
Did TSM 1/13-6/13 and snapped the addiction
Quit TSM and got re-addicted.
Goal=No Al, No Nal

Jan = 0 Drinks, 31 AF
Feb = 15 Drinks, 23 AF
Mar = 0 Drinks, 31 AF
April = 0 Drinks, 30 AF
May = 0 Drinks, 31 AF


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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:38 pm
Posts: 300
Welcome aboard.

Please have him stay home for the first few doses. Some, me, have had profound side effects. Read my first post here if you want the gory details.

And I wouldnt say he should be encouraged to drink, but one should drink on nal. One should stop drinking when one desires to stop.

Definitely have him record his consumption. He should start now so he has a baseline. I would let him keep it private, he should be honest with himself. There will be ups and downs.

We'll all hope he is a quick responder like some of us.

_________________
Skipping nal? Not waiting the full hour?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement

Read "intermittent reinforcement" and "schedules"

Pre: 14-30/wk
9 Oct 13: 2.5
15 Oct 13: 3.5
17 Nov 13: 1.75
28 Feb 14: 2
1 Apr 14: 2


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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:24 am
Posts: 14
barryb3 wrote:
gvk2005. Great post. Agreed that you sound like you're handling this thing perfectly. A marriage like that is a beautiful thing. Like your husband, I developed into a secret drinker. I'd drink one in the open, six on the side of the garage. I did it partly to protect my wife -- I didn't want her married to an alcoholic (or, think she was married to one!). I also have a wicked sweet tooth, but I've always had that. It's interesting about the sudden cravings. I've heard certain steroids can give someone an insatiable hunger, but I've never heard to anything causing insatiable cravings. Doesn't matter, really. It is what it is.

It sucks about his career, too. That just compounds the depression and desire-to-drink in a vicious cycle.

One bit of practical advice would be to get him onto this forum to share his story. I and many others have found great therapeutic success just in writing things down, even though there are only a handful of people who will read it (I've compared this forum to a small room with 10 folding chairs and a stinky coffee pot). He can fudge a fact here and there to make it totally anonymous. As weird as it sounds, if I know that I'll have to admit drinking failures to random people on this site, I'm less likely to cheat (even though I could lie). It's purely a psychological trick taking advantage of our social nature, but it works wonders for me.

If you feel like sharing more, here are some questions...
*What, when, and how much does he currently drink?
*Has he gained weight through this whole shebang? If so, how much could he "stand to lose"?
*When he drinks, is it visibly obvious, or is he really good at hiding it? (I got drunk pretty much every night off and after my confession, my wife said, "I never saw you drunk." I'm that good!).

Anyway, try to get him on here. It's an extremely non-judgmental crowd.



Hi all...thank you so much for the responses.

I have encouraged my husband to post here as he goes on this journey. I'm not sure that he will though. He isn't much of an internet guy to begin with, short of looking things up. But he's never been one for forums and the like. (while I've always been more heavily involved in the webs that way) If he even continues to read here though, for encouragement purposes and education, that will likely still be helpful, I think?

To answer some of the questions..its hard to know the "what, when and how much" since his descent into the problem drinking. He carries great shame about this period and I've had to ease a lot of the info I do have out of him. However, I do know from some of the times I've "caught" him, so to speak...and there didn't seem to be a standard. Vodka, fireball (?), beer, wine. One time he drank some of the cooking wine. Another time, he drank some of my unopened white drinking wine and tried to refill the bottle with water. I only found that out when we were expecting company and I went to put the bottle in the fridge to chill it. He admitted it, then of course, and said it was the only thing in the house at the time and he was craving alcohol but was too ashamed to tell me, so he thought he'd cover it up until he could replace it. Given that situation, I don't know if or how many other times he may have done such a thing. Other times, I know he drank two large beers (24 oz'ers) in rapid succession...enough to get a buzz.

As for the weight... When he had been so ill with his intestinal infection, he had lost 30 lbs rapidly. His clothes were hanging on him. Once that medical situation was on the mend, he started gaining back. Then once the drinking ramped up into a heavier mode, he not only put that same 30 lbs back on, but has since added another 10-15. To the point where even his pre-illness clothes are super tight on him.

He is probably good at hiding his drinking from the world at large until he gets downright drunk. But he can't hide it from me anymore. I've become a quick study and can now pretty much tell not only that he's been drinking, but how much. The signs are VERY subtle and perhaps something only an intimate would pick up on. He doesn't have to slur in order for me to notice his voice or speaking cadence has changed. Same with his walk. Its just a more "cautious' walk, different gait cadence, wider stanced, etc. Also, something he never had with social drinking before, even if he was intoxicated...is that his left eye will droop. Sometimes just a slight bit, sometimes more prominently. But I notice it now even when slight. Then there is the breath of course, which no toothpaste, mints or gum can disguise from me. He still thinks it can. There were times I smelled alcohol on his breath and he blamed it on everything from throat drops to Nyquil to some random food. Those were the lies I hated. Being treated as though I'm daft? But hopefully that is all a thing of the past now.

His Nal arrived in the mail two days ago. He has started the process Monday night. He took the Nal the minute he picked it up at the post office..and set the timer on his phone. He picked up a 6 pack of Mexican beer on the way home..it was Cinco de Mayo..and this has been a tradition for us in years past, to eat Mexican food and drink Corona. Anyhow...he ate while waiting the hour to be up. I could see he was chomping at the bit, even as he encouraged me to go ahead and open one for myself with dinner. I didn't want to..but he said it was important for him to challenge himself to wait the hour, even in the presence of alcohol or drinkers. So I did. As soon as the timer went off, I opened him a beer and we started a movie. This is where it got a little interesting. I had to keep encouraging him to drink it. Usually he would take a very long drink/pull on the bottle. But he was taking these little sips and then not taking another one for a long time. I guess I was worried that if he didn't drink with the Nal on board, he'd be defeating the purpose, so thats why I encouraged him from time to time to drink it. I kept inquiring about side effects such as nausea. He never did feel any ill effects. He went on to have a 2nd beer and then opened a third but fell asleep before he finished it. At no time during the 2.5 beers did he try to chug it down...which is a return to how he use to drink socially before all this came about. He said he just did not feel the urge to chug it...and he didn't feel compelled to "keep drinking". So....wow. Already? Who knows if that was just a fluke or a sign that this is really going to help him.

So the very next night, last night...I was going to have a glass of wine with dinner and offered him one. He said he would take another Nal and then drive to the store for beer instead, which he did. He bought a 12 pack. Set his alarm again. (he is impressing me already with his willingness to try to do this by the book) Again, he drank two 16 oz beers...opened a third and couldn't drink it. Still no ill effects or feelings...but he said that again, he felt no desire to keep drinking and that by the 3rd beer he just kind of lost interest. I am impressed so far. Although I have read enough about what is being called the "honeymoon" period for some people, and am aware this could just be that. Still...its obvious that this medicine *does* work on some mysterious way on cravings!

The past 2 weeks, or since my first post...have really put him to the test. We lost a dear relative, not quite an adult yet...in a very tragic accident. Our family has been devastated by the loss and its been such a trying, emotional time. Through it all..there was some MAJOR drinking going on at night at a relatives house, with everyone trying to drown their sorrows or numb the devastating emotions. He did also drink but used sheer willpower I guess to keep it to a moderate level, so that he could be there for me and my family (of origin) who were all such a mess. He did all the driving. On the heels of the death and funeral and such..our daughter graduated from college and we were away for a 4 day celebration of that. Again, lots of champagne and drinks of celebration..and he partook at moderate levels when he did drink, which was 2 of the 4 days.

So I think between the medicine and his trying very hard as well to be conscious of his drinking...he is doing well.
I will update this thread from time to time with his progress, in particular, since he likely wont post himself. Since I am not the drinker I dont think I could post in the "updated progress" thread. (correct me if I am wrong?)

Thanks again for the responses. Sorry this is so long. My addiction is being verbose, lol.
G


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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:25 am 
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Posts: 14
gkv2005 wrote:

Thanks again for the responses. Sorry this is so long. My addiction is being verbose, lol.
G


I also forgot to add that he has been diligently interviewing for jobs and had a few different firms fighting for him. He accepted one finally and begins later this week :) It's the same type of exec job he had before and so with a small deviation in pay/benefits...a good place to start over, Thank Bob! Hopefully when the stress of the new job kicks in..so too will Nal!


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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:04 am 
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Posts: 121
gkv2005 That's great news about the job. I imagine you both have the sense that this is a very lucky 2nd chance; things could have turned out so much worse. Surely, his success at this point is going to require beating this addiction.

Like me, your husband is the classic secret drinker. Drinking never seemed as enjoyable to me unless most of my drinks were slammed down in secret -- in the closet, in the car, the side of the house, etc... It probably has something to do with my early age of onset (12) and pretty much sneaking drinks for the next 6-7 years. It was a "forbidden pleasure."

Unlike my wife, you actually can now recognize when he's drinking, when he's drunk, etc... I think part of the challenge for secret drinkers is that (generally) we're so good at lying about and hiding our drinking that quitting alcohol becomes even more of a personal challenge. My wife told me straight up "I'm not your mom and I'm not going to police you," pretty much guaranteeing that I was going to be "alone" in this endeavor. That may sound cold, but it's actually exactly what I needed from her. Nothing.

There are multiple ways your husband can trick you at this point. Drink in the morning when he gets to work. Drink one beer in front of you at night and say, "Wow, this stuff works" and then down three shots while he goes to the grocery store. Pretend to be taking Naltrexone but take another pill (e.g. switch it with another white pill, like a Tylenol), later saying, "I guess I'm just one of the unlucky ones that TSM doesn't work for..." Unless you're willing to break open and give him his pill and then monitor his every move, you are pretty much without real power in all of this, even though you're the one who likely suffers most from his drinking, and will be doubly-pained if he loses this job. If it comes down to it, a breathalyzer is the one thing a secret drinker can't trick, but they can work around it (e.g. make sure they're at 0.0 by the time they arrive home by having a hidden, 2nd breathalyzer; say, "I'm working late" until you blow a 0.0 -- yes, we're that sneaky).

I guess my point is...you may consider just doing what my wife did (i.e. moral support, but not policing, letting him know he's a grown man and he has to take care of this himself).

Keep us updated or, even better, get him on here.

_________________
30+ Years of Compulsive, Secret Drinking
Did TSM 1/13-6/13 and snapped the addiction
Quit TSM and got re-addicted.
Goal=No Al, No Nal

Jan = 0 Drinks, 31 AF
Feb = 15 Drinks, 23 AF
Mar = 0 Drinks, 31 AF
April = 0 Drinks, 30 AF
May = 0 Drinks, 31 AF


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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:18 am 
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Posts: 89
Location: Somewhere, embracing the infinite.
Cosigning Barry: if a spouse or SO polices a struggling mate, the danger that the mate externalizes his behavioral difficulty (when he must confront it in his aloneness) is high. Obviously few people, much less people who are in revolt against something and express their revolt in alcohol abuse, enjoy being regulated. I should think that it would make things much worse.

In this process, I think it's important to examine the often confused conditions of guilt and shame. Here is how I consider the two.

Guilt is essentially simple, and can be quite innocuous: it's acknowledgement of a personal failing, a failing to regulate oneself in accordance with agreed-upon rules. Meanwhile shame is the killer because it is the deep-seated concern that we are, in no way, the person we *should* be or *can* be; it is a condition that obliterates our humanity as a person -- from within.

So, we can be guilty of speeding in our cars, but for most, this is an innocuous problem of self-regulation. "Sorry, I won't do that again."

If we feel shame, however, we can become paralyzed or otherwise incapacitated by the loss of our sense of agency and intrinsic human worth; the best way I know to suppress that existential panic is through the consciousness-numbing activities that deliver us here. "I'm sorry I exist, I will do anything to suppress this feeling." "I am six inches from nihilism."

If I had a partner I would ask for modest assistance in regulation ("please don't shame me if I don't drink" or "How about we remove the hooch from the house until I get over the hump with this abstinence thing"). But I likely would walk on pins and needles, desperately seeking signs that my humanity, however flawed, did not shame me in her eyes. Once shamed by a loved one, few people recover well, if ever. If our deepest fears about ourselves are validated in the eyes of someone we love, well, one either learns to live entirely without love, or one chooses to eliminate consciousness once and for all. I would say that this is why Barry and I were so good at secretive drinking. It is untenable to be found out, and be forced to see our darkest shame mirrored in the eyes of someone we need.

Just my two cents and Godspeed.

_________________
Initiated TSM 11 August 2013

Grateful for Sinclair, Eskapa, this community, and the NAL.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Thank you guys so much for your thoughtful responses. Its a lot to digest and though I've read them each twice, I'm certain I will read them again.

I just couldn't agree more about the differences between guilt and shame. Shame doesn't seem to be a thing I can help with, though I swear by all the Gods, I have tried. I have told him many times that I do not define him by his drinking, whatever that drinking is or has come to be. I define him by his true character, the man inside him that I've known for so long before this became an issue. Drinking or not doesn't change that for me. I mean that with all my heart.

Many may disagree with me, but I do feel this is something that has happened TO him. Not for him to have a victim mentality about it, god forbid...but for him to see that his wife sees it as a medical problem, a physiological problem that has happened within his body. I've known addiction myself, to nicotine, and although thats been my only addiction experience, its enough for me to know that there have been times I'd go to a store at 3am alone (naked, if I had to, I'm sure)...or smoke the remnants of a previously smoked cigarette, dig through old purses and coat jackets...anything to get my hands on some nicotine. I've also quit numerous times...and I know the hell it wreaks on body & soul. I point these situations out as analogous, even if they aren't....to try to demonstrate to him that I don't consider him to be a different man. He is a worthy man, husband and father. He always was...and in my eyes, he remains so. What I do know however, is that my words sometimes fall on deaf ears. Its far more important what he tells himself than anything I can say to him.

I have said the very words to him about policing. I do not want to be the drinking police. I want only honesty where it is concerned and safety. The honesty, particularly about the car, is paramount to our lives. We have an agreement about the car...a promise from him that he won't drink & drive and a commitment to hand over the keys to our sole car, permanently, if he does it again. This is the only way I can protect myself, which I intend to do in whatever ways I can. So we did purchase a breathalyzer for that purpose. Keeping in mind this is after many times and many lies followed by many promises. There was left no choice...but I did try to tell him it was something WE were doing (the breath machine) for OUR safety and protection, versus me trying to keep tabs on him. Also an exercise in trust rebuilding, which is so sorely needed. I've offered taxi cabs, buying a 2nd car in just his name, coming to get him if he needs be, having him drink his fill at home with no remarks from me to avoid being on the road. Whatever would be both supportive and yet protect his safety, our family safety (and others on the roads). It was only somewhat helpful. He would at first, for example, take the breath test when arriving home with alcohol on his breath... his tells waving like a brightly colored flag...and register a 1.0 all while claiming to have had one beer during a haircut. Thats been a little while back now though and I think he has overcome that particular issue. Cautiously optimistic on that.

Now comes to the part I logged into post about...which it so happens, addresses something BarryB posted on. Tricks?

On night 3 of TSM journey, my husband took his Nal and couldn't get a 2nd beer down. His words to me were "this stuff really works, it is a miracle". There is only a limited amount of alcohol here in the house, in the open that is, and this is of course being taken at face value.

The next morning, yesterday morning, he woke me up with a cup of coffee and asked me to come down to the kitchen. When I arrived..he had a piece of paper with notes written out...and a blank sheet with pen for me. He had a cup next to him..with beer in it. He said "I woke you up for an honest discussion and yes, that is beer in my cup" It was 10am

He proceeded to tell me that in just a few nights, he sees the potential of this medicine. That he was unable to drink past a point and to get a buzz. He tells me that he felt a certain "loss" or mourning over what he thinks will be a goodbye to ever having that feeling again. Therefore, says he, he wanted one last 'hurrah' before starting fresh on Friday with his new job and new way of living. He told me exactly how many drinks he had (beers) and then he took a Nal (after the fact, not sure how useful that was) and asked me to please understand *if I could*.

The funny thing is (not haha)...on nights before a smoking quit..I myself have literally smoked myself sick, trying to get it all in, if you will, finish what I had on hand or whatever. Such psychological games we play with ourselves but it is what it is. I can see that he didn't have that, as he went straight from getting this Nal into using it..in the same day. So on that odd level, I did somewhat understand what he was saying. I also knew this could be yet another bargaining session he had with himself, an excuse or justification or sign of an early end to the TSM experiment. Only he can know for sure. I wasn't angry at first and I very much did appreciate the Honesty! It so beats waking up to him being intoxicated, me making comment on it..and him denying it. By a long shot it beats *that.

You are dead on about this 2nd chance with employment being such a lucky thing. In more ways than I could explain here. Morning drinking or daytime drinking being the biggest barrier to success on that front. So to say that yesterday morning scared me to the core...is an understatement. We do stand to lose everything, people included, if he were to lose another job to drinking. 3rd chances, I hear, are very hard to come by, if at all.

While he himself *claims to want my help with this, it remains to be seen as to how true that is ...or how engrained his drinking life without my influence or input is. He hasn't asked for "policing' and I'm only offering that in one area, to be clear, and that is as it respects our only vehicle. It is an agreed upon policing however. If he waits somewhere, having been drinking, till he sobers up and blows a 0.0... and then drives? there is no issue..for me.

Thank you all again and any thoughts on any of the above are appreciated. I think only you...you who have been in these trenches, can really shed any *real* light.


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 Post subject: Re: Happy to have found this site....
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:39 pm 
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Posts: 121
gkv2005 Ugh. I'm nervous for you. I get the whole "last hoorah" thing -- it's just the addictive voice talking stupid as usual (if you haven't read through www.rationalrecovery.com I'd recommend it). Yes, there's not literally an "addictive voice" or a "beast" in his head as RR claims (metaphorically), but addiction goes beyond just feeling and urges and encompasses all manner of mental gymnastics and rationalizations.

To me, it's a big red flag that he drinks in the morning, given the situation (personally, I've only a handful of times had a drink before 3:00 and never before noon). It's going to be way too easy for him to "have a few" during the day and do the whole TSM thing after work. This, of course, will accomplish nothing in terms of an extinction of the addiction. If it gets to that point, "no policing" aside, I would say you might be smart in making him take the pill in the morning, as it will last all day and into the evening. Your whole future may rely on this succeeding (not to be dramatic), so there may come a point where you have to be self-protective in all this. Relative to Rational Recovery, you're practically entirely "hands off" in this ordeal.

I also get the "mourning" thing, which is a term I also used to describe the process. Though inanimate, alcohol can really be like a friend (or lover) to the addict. Still, he's going to have to get over this. This is also a normal part of the divorcing of alcohol. Boo Hoo. Now say goodbye. Again, there's really no reason to "mourn" or to have "one last weekend of fun," it's just a trick his desperate mind is playing on him. Hopefully, on the other side of this, it will all seem like such folly to him; for now, though, this is a dramatic struggle and war for him. You likely experienced the same with cigarettes -- surely, pulling nearly finished cigarettes from the trash doesn't seem like a logical thing to do in retrospect.

Now on to the more controversial idea that alcoholism has happened TO HIM. Honestly, I don't even know where I fall in all this, as it seems so complicated and has so many grey areas. Obviously, I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that a person is not at least partially to blame for their addiction, as well as for the prolonging of this addiction despite the negative consequences. The upside to you choosing sides so clearly in such a grey area is that you can approach him with this non-judgmental support and empathy. The downside, though, is that your lack of bringing down the hammer on the drinking gives him the impression both that (a) it's really no big deal, just don't drive or get fired, and (b) you're cool with whatever, and there won't be any real consequences in his life if he just somehow, kinda sorta sabotages this whole thing and "fails" at TSM.

Just remember, though, he's likely a master at lying. IMO, you need to develop a Plan B to protect yourself and your family if he chooses to make this fail, or if he suddenly loses the "buzz crush" that Naltrexone gives to some people and returns to his normal levels. You can't go on like this forever.

Keep us update.
Barry

P.S. Real story from the ER...I talked to a patient and, separately, his wife, about an accident suffered by an alcohol-addicted, 50-something business owner / executive (rich guy, for sure). It seems as though the wife and some close friends were waiting outside his office building at 5:00PM to stage one of those (ineffective) interventions to take him to rehab. He drank throughout the day everyday and was quite drunk at 5:00. He decided to take the stairs, slipped, and fell down, breaking multiple vertebrae and landing him in bed for a month. While the intervention team waited, an ambulance pulled up to the building, scooped him up, and walked right past the team. Not really relevant here, but a good story. When he sobered up, his face was like, "What the hell has happened to my life?"

_________________
30+ Years of Compulsive, Secret Drinking
Did TSM 1/13-6/13 and snapped the addiction
Quit TSM and got re-addicted.
Goal=No Al, No Nal

Jan = 0 Drinks, 31 AF
Feb = 15 Drinks, 23 AF
Mar = 0 Drinks, 31 AF
April = 0 Drinks, 30 AF
May = 0 Drinks, 31 AF


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