Argggggh. I missed all of this.

Thanks for coming back and being honest. If I'm honest I was very afraid for you, but you've proved to me how easy it is to reverse the addictive process yet, and I don't know if I've read this right but you are still saying you'd like to moderate without nal in the future?

Why do you think it'll be any different next time around?

When I came into TSM I'd tried everything and knew I was at my wits end, and I knew I never ever wanted to go back into the drinking hell I'd been in. For that reason I never drank without Nal, and never have done in almost 3 years now. To me any risk of readdiction is just a risk to great and when I realised I was only drinking for the sake of it, and things were maybe getting a bit wierd I decided to just go AF, make things simple. I'm not prepared to play around with my life just so I might enjoy a few drinks and my life and desires have changed so much alcohol is not longer a part of my life.

Sounds like we have a different outlook on this and I think we are at different places in our journey.

If you do drink after Lent I genuinely hope it is with Naltrexone but only you can decide what is right for you.

Thanks. Actually, I'm probably just going to try to go 100% alcohol-free. Summer will be the hard time, but I'm really much, much happier and "better" in general without alcohol (e.g. I've barely got mad or even raised my voice in three months). My two closest friends are also now non-drinkers (as in zero, ever), and nobody else (family included) really gives a rip if I don't drink. "Want a beer?" "No." "OK." My wife informed me that she sometimes wants to have a drink (she almost always stops at 1), and I informed her that that's cool by me, so we keep beer and wine in the house.

What's different from this time last year? Well, I have hundreds of AF days under my belt and pretty much an entirely new routine that does not involve alcohol (which typically includes working out or taking a "reflective walk" at night, followed by reading a book from my long list of "things to read" -- currently reading the very entertaining "48 Laws of Power"). I also have a much more focused approach to my life, marriage, family, and self (again, thanks to my discovery of the manosphere); alcohol is actually injurious to all these things. In addition, I had several very negative experiences of alcohol (AND Naltrexone) between this time last year and 33 days ago when I had my last drink.

In short, the positives of not-drinking have been strongly reinforced, while the negatives of drinking have also been strongly reinforced.

I won't lie, though. I really do think that, at this point, I could probably pull off moderate drinking if I had to. The "7" in my drink count, though, was an eye-opener for me because it was an out-of-control, ravenous binge just like the old days. That was the last night I drank anything.

What leads you to believe that you could pull off moderate drinking? Didn't you already try that and become re-addicted (see the title of this thread)?

It's important for all people who have had success with TSM to accept the fact that we can't just be normal drinkers. There is a reason we became addicted in the first place - because ethanol causes our brains to produce large amounts of endogenous morphine which leads to euphoria. That subsequently leads to alcohol-seeking behavior. It really is that simple.

What leads you to believe that you could pull off moderate drinking?

I'm a stronger person than I was this time last year, and I have better habits and routines. In the past 90 days, I've only drank on 5 occasions, and only once was it immoderately.

Still, I hear (and agree with) what everyone's saying. Right now, the risks of drinking (emotional instability [#1], ED, drunk driving, hangovers) and the rewards of not-drinking (none of the above, plus being the "happiest" I think I've ever been in my entire life) are strongly steering me towards full sobriety. Naltrexone broke my addiction, but I've got to the point I am today not by blocking my endorphins with a pill, but through other routes. "What's inside of you is stronger than any spell."

And that is better than using medication however I do still worry you are asking these questions because it implies that in the future you might decide to drink again.

I have, several times, climbed out of addiction and then slid back in. The first few times are usually moderate. Then comes somewhat heavier drinking, and then . . . there's usually no clear point at which I'm readdicted, but at some point I realize that it has happened.

There's nothing wrong with moderation after addiction. Contrary to popular belief, it's the most common way to get out of addiction -- more common either than abstinence or continually worsening addiction. I wonder, though, how someone able to moderate would become so desperate as to try TSM or any other medically assisted method.

Is there a thread where you describe your initial woes?

Barry,

Why would you ever have to pull off moderate drinking? You've stated that there is no social compulsion to do drink, so why would you have to do that? Are you some sort of thrill seeker that insists on pushing things to the edge? It strikes me that you've already tried that process and failed. I know you think you are a much stronger person now, and I'm sure you are. But the fact remains that you were addicted to alcohol, overcame that addiction, then re-addicted yourself, and have now overcome that addiction for the second time. Overcoming it once is a miracle in and of itself, but twice? I think gambling on a third time is bordering on insanity. Just remember that the devil is like a fisherman, he's going to keep casting using different lures and bait until one day you take the hook and you're done. Time is on his side. You've managed to slip off that hook twice. The third time it might be set for good. Please don't end up mounted on his wall!

JMS Thanks. Currently researching / reflecting on just being alcohol free for good. Even though I have abolutely no problem being AF "next week" or "next month," when it starts getting into "next year" or "next decade," there's a little bit of sadness in my head. This is very much akin to rational recovery's "the beast" thrashing about. On that site, he recommends telling yourself, "I will drink again in 100 years" since "the beast knows no time."

It's pretty bizarre because just two years ago, I didn't think it would even be conceivable in any way, shape, or form to go even a week without alcohol. I would marvel at anyone who could live without alcohol -- it just seemed so unobtainable. Now, here I am. 40 days AF and counting with zero desire or cravings.

Every once in awhile it hits me -- oh my gosh, I haven't drank in weeks and have no desire to. Even still, every time I wake up in the morning, I "check myself" for a hangover, or do a "memory check" to see if I don't remember something from last night. That lasts about three seconds and then I realize, OK, I don't drink anymore. Hmm. And get up.

So, we're having this opening ceremony thing at the sailing club (a huge bunch of boozers) in a couple of weeks. That will be my first test because I used to always want to get drunk then. My challenge ahead is mainly summertime. It was very warm and sunny the other day, after such a cold winter, and my thoughts went immediately to alcohol. Sun=Alcohol. If I can make it through this summer without alcohol, that will be gigantic. My next big hurdle after that will be the Holidays (100% history since age 16 of being a boozefest, including this past year). My main strengths to combat this at this moment are: My body is looking really good (very similar to David Beckham, if I dare say) and I want to maintain that, which is impossible with regular drinking (at least for me); my emotional control is BY FAR the best ever in my life, and I want to maintain that, which is impossible with regular drinking; my parenting right now is also BY FAR the best it's been, and I want to maintain that, which is impossible with regular drinking. All three of these together have also positively impacted my marriage -- not so much my career, but it can't hurt.

That's why, for the first time, I realize that having "just one drink" is going to be a big decision / undertaking for me at this point. It's not going to be a simple drink, but a decision to give up my full sobriety that I have now achieved after these 16 months.

Sometimes it's far easier to just think about being sober today and accepting that.

I know I struggle when I think "I have to do this thing for ever, for 5 years, 10 years, 20 years" and yes it is sad however I know I don't want to go back to what I was and I know I would die if I drank alcoholically again - and it wouldn't take long because when I do something I do it VERY well. I'm lucky I didn't die on so many other occasions when I was boozing like crazy. I did crazy things.

Yeah, sober summer.

Funny how a nice cool glass of sparkling water, at a push lemonade quenches thirst a lot better than beer!

UKblonde...I think quitting alcohol for us is similar to quitting sugar / junk foods. It's very do-able, it makes us feel better, etc.... But, it's ingrained in us since childhood, provides intense pleasure, and will always be lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce. That's why I have a hard time saying, "I'll never drink again. It will be easy." Two years down the road, who knows what I will be like, or what my life will be like. I'm not a big "one day at a time" guy, but I find "one month at a time" to be more useful to me.

Maybe this is the final hurdle I need to jump over.