You wine drinkers have peculiar reactions compared to the beer and liquor drinkers. Maybe that question is misleading to the wine drinkers and I should just move it down below the part where I already ask if wine is your chief tipple.

I've been thinking about the wine thing. My best guess was that wine does in fact taste like vinegar -- well, closer to vinegar than e.g., hefeweizen does, they're both soured grape beverages at least.

Could you do an experiement? Take a glass of apple cider vinegar and cut it with water, one vinegar to two or three parts water, then taste. See if you think it tastes like wine. It wouldn't be any vintage you know, of course, and it wouldn't be especially good, but is it still somewhere in the same zip code?

I used to drink diluted vinegar years ago, to get the taste without the effect, in my own lame attempt at killing the urge. I recall it as being not entirely unlike wine. Now I'm not sure I could even tell. It's been too long since I had much wine.

I don't know why you're supposed to use apple cider vinegar in this recipe. You'd think grape juice would make more sense, but the original directions specified apple cider vinegar.

I might try something similar myself, because I'm not a wine drinker. I wonder if I could even tell the difference? It would be funny (and enlightening) if I couldn't.

"That sounds ideal," Melissa said thoughtfully.

But your consumption still isn't as low as you'd like, right? So the "have more" must be dialed up a bit higher than you'd really like.



As we keep telling each other, everybody's different. I was fortunate in that pregnancy affected me in that way, so that it wasn't a problem (avoiding cigarettes, on the other hand, was a huge problem).

The most significant part of that, to me, was that it was obvious and undeniable proof that biochemistry was part of this problem. The switch was much too sudden for it to be the result of better life choices, more appealing options, etc. It was instant, and that meant it was part of the physiological changes.

Armed with that memory, I had my eyes wide open for the TSM shift out of addiction. Someone who hasn't had the experience of addiction abruptly crumbling away to nothing would probably have a different experience of TSM.

This would be a good blog topic. Would you like to do a back-and-forth with me? We're two mothers with distinctly different experiences, and that could be quite informative.

I have a new flow chart version:

http://naltrexonekey.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

This thing is getting to be kind of a mess. I'm concerned that it may be hard to follow, in addition to whatever content problems remain.

melissa, I'll try the cider vinegar mix for you (need to go to the shops to get the ingredients)...but have to say it sounds disgusting!



I keep wondering whether this is where the big difference lies between people such as yourself who get a very strong intense reaction to the Nal and people like me who get a reaction but one that's not as strong and for whom TSM will therefore inevitably take longer. Different brain make up?


Exactly. Nicely put.

However, I've been driving myself nuts trying to work out the how and whys of this and so I'm going to just let it go and accept that it just is what it is. The more I question it the more I throw myself into doubt about the whole thing and so I've decided to stop questioning and keep taking the pill...one nal, one drink at a time.

I'd happily do something on your blog with you, but it would have to be a little further down the line for me. Don't think I've really got any answeres for anyone at this stage in the game

Just saw the chart. I had to laugh (in a good way), as in "HA HAAAA." Impressive and a great idea.

Melissa,

I switched to another computer and I can now see the flowchart. Must be something in that security software blocking the file. Very impressive diagram. It's everything I've learned on this forum in the last three weeks condensed into a concise roadmap. I plan to print it and let my wife study it. She'll be able to see all the mistakes I've made over the last six moths and the consequences. AND there is still hope for success. Perhaps there's a way to show a branch coming off that leads to 'cured'. When you reach here, go decare yourself on the cured list. No cravings, can take it or leave it, reached your goals, below some reasonable #/week, #/day, etc. no bingeing, family/friends have noticed a difference, etc. Then some mention of on-going maintenance: Even after cure, always follow the golden rule. Just a thought. Thanks again.

Heh, good luck printing that huge and messy thing. It'll take at least four sheets.

Does anyone know why the resolution is so low after uploading? Google is messing with the file somehow. I'm trying to find a way to tell Google that I really do need the full high-resolution file, but I haven't found such an option.

This has very much been my experience. I will sometimes feel repulsed by the thought of having wine or beer, sometimes neutral or mildly interested (until I've had a few, then I'm generally sick of alcohol). But a delicious-sounding specialty cocktail will still attract my attention, and I'll still enjoy those if they're not too strong. I'm not really getting a lack of joy; I still find it pleasurable to be a little buzzed, and I still enjoy social occasions when I'm drinking. I think some of the other mechanisms of action for alcoholism are in play for me, but not to the point where I'm independently addicted. (The voice of doubt at the back of my head points out that I am not abstaining altogether, and therefore can't prove that I could if I wanted to. But my rational side points out that I'm no longer drinking at a level that causes me physical harm, drains my income, or causes me to make unwise decisions that damage my career or personal life, and that was really the point of me trying TSM.)

I like this chart a lot, but I'd tweak the parts where you talk about what your experience should be, since the experiences of people who've reported success have varied. Maybe instead of "You're not supposed to enjoy [alcoholic drinks]," say something like "The fact that you're not enjoying them is a sign you're breaking the addiction, but the cure won't work if you take half measures."

Thanks. I'm still struggling with how to word parts of it. It already has too much text in some areas, I think.

I just saw this response. What's the special snowflake stuff? The only "special" part I see is where I try to track down if someone might have a non-opioid addiction.

I could leave that out, since that's been problematic for two people. It might just not be possible via self-diagnosis, although apparently the "sweet drink" test works pretty well . . . but apparently not well enough to deploy in the field, so there you go on both sides.