Hi JMS

I Read your entire thread and felt like you were writing my story. Many similarities. I orginally started Nal in June, but did not keep drink count, follow golden rule all the time, and didn't keep a weekly journal update as you have done. What a mistake on my part. I wasted 6 months and probably even made the addiction worse with intermittant reinforcement. I'm starting anew and will follow the advice of those before me on this commumity. I love the comments and supporters here and highly value their advice. I look at your numbers and see significant improvement. I also feel your angst over the continued compulsion to drink. I'm rooting for you as I see my self in your place. Keep going I love your positive out look. Thanks.

Hi 5dogs,

Thanks for the kind words. I have to have hope and faith or I'm in real trouble. It appears that this intermittent reinforcement concept is real, so I went back over my most recent history and found out that I've certainly engaged in a bit of that over the last month. Not much, but a little bit. And it appears that every little bit hurts. I'm also considering increasing my dosage to 87.5 MG and possibly to 100 MG from the current level of 75 MG. I'm still feeling some of the effects of alcohol. It is definitely different, but there is still some residual effect that the drug does not block completely. It is lessened at the higher dose, so I'm hoping that an even higher dose will completely block it.

In terms of wasting the last six months, I don't think you should look at it that way. You've definitely decreased your intake, and that is an achievement in and of itself. You have also learned quite a bit about the protocol and what works for you in terms of dosage and what not to do. So take that and run with it! Best of luck!

You will still feel some effects. Slowing, slurring, lessened balance, etc will still occur. The euphoric buzz should be gone though.

And yeah, its totally counterintuitive that a little slip up here and there results in stronger addiction.

Well, I'm AF tonight for the second time in 5 days. Hallelujah, but it doesn't come easy. I can't, for the life of me, figure out this mental obsession. Those random thoughts that pop into my mind telling me to have a drink. Where the heck does that come from? It is not physical as I am not physically dependent on alcohol. I don't have shakes or anything like that. There is an aspect of feeling like I am missing out on something. This makes absolutely no sense, since drinking has ceased to be enjoyable for me. As I've said before, there is almost a stimulus/response for me and drinking, especially with the holidays. There is such a deep association with alcohol and that time of the year. It starts at Halloween (that used to be a big night in our neighborhood with all of the parents boozing while they walked their kids around) and runs right through New Years. It is probably going to take a lot of time and patience to get rid of that mindset. Thankfully that time of the year is behind us.

Drinking is definitely different on NAL, but I do still feel some effects. Dizzy and lightheaded mainly, and it also really effects my mood. I get really depressed and have a torrent of negative thoughts. Yesterday I took 100 MG over the course of about six hours and had two specific drinking sessions. Both were not enjoyable and my hope is that is going to begin to sink into my concrete skull and take the obsession away. I feel so much better when I don't drink. There is simply no comparison to the positive effects of not drinking versus drinking. I can logically rationalize that all I want and still get waylaid. Maybe for me it is simply going to take a larger dose of willpower on my part. How the deprivation effect factors into this remains to be seen. I do find that after a few days I am really ready to have a drink. I'm shooting for two more AF days this week. I will let you all know how it goes on Friday.

Hi JMS,

I feel exactly the same as you. Today I'm AF, but can't get the thoughts out of my head. Thats 2 AFs in 10 days. That probably hasn't happened in 30 years. (except 1 stint in the hospital for surgery) I do feel somewhat empowered. I'm not sick, or shaking, or having any physical reaction, just turmoil between the ears. Like you, drinking on nal is no longer euphoric, but I do feel something comforting, can't put my finger on it. I've read others say it ruins the taste of beer or wine or whiskey. Not here. I agree we have to put some work in on this, will power, it can't be as easy as taking a pill or a shot and then do nothing different. I'm willing to work on it, as I know you are. I think you were considering upping your dose. Have you? just curious.

5dogs,

I haven't increased my dosage yet. I'm still at 75 MG. Yesterday I did take 75 MG initially and then took another 25 MG about 5 hours later. That seemed to do the trick for the second session of the day.

Congrats on your 2 AF days. That is quite an accomplishment if you haven't been AF for 30 years! Keep up the good work. I think it is going to get easier, and I am starting to feel some progress. Again, I think it's just going to take longer for guys like you and I. Especially since we have been intermittently violating the golden rule. We've been doing solid work for 30 years so it's going to take a little longer to erase that tape.

I went AF for almost 18 months in AA and the thoughts never left me. I went on a business trip to Singapore and all bets were off and I relapsed. But it was going to happen eventually because that little voice never left me and eventually I was going to answer that bell. My hope is that NAL is going to decouple the positive association with alcohol. I continue to go to meetings every now and then just for the reinforcement. I'm not sure that's helping, but as long as I keep the meetings to a minimum and don't let them get to me it's OK.

When are you starting on the Vivitrol?

I hear you both. The voice inside my head is quieter, and sometimes I can ignore it, but it's still there. I also still get some effect from alcohol (even when I'm strict on the one hour rule). It still feels warming as it goes down and I get a relaxed feeling...plus the wine still tastes good. I really wish it tasted awful, but it doesn't. I too am considering upping my dose. I'm just regrouping from the holidays and all the extra drinking that was involved and have decided not to overthink things for the next few days, but I am going to try to formulate a of plan of attack. However, I don't think my reaction to the Nal is unusual or that it isn't working.

It warms my heart to hear things that demonstrate people are reading the scientific literature.

FWIW, alcohol withdrawal can present differently. I didn't realize I was physiologically addicted until I learned that withdrawal can seem like "a touch of the flu."

Yep, that was me. I always "caught a cold" after one or two days of not drinking, and drinking made it go away. I even joked that alcohol killed the germs causing the cold.



I'm not sure it makes absolutely no sense. We are missing out on something -- we're missing out on the opioid-induced euphoria of alcohol.

The question we should really be considering is whether or not we're missing out on something worth missing. Some people find Alcohol Lied to Me to be extremely helpful in this respect (I haven't read it myself).



It does take time to unlearn the urge, and you did have intermittent reinforcement which you will now have to work past. It must be discouraging, I know.

I'm sure the AF days will help, especially if you do something fun on them. Everybody suggests exercise, but if that's not happening then just eating some chocolate ice cream might help -- that causes the release of endorphins. Your brain can learn that the good stuff now comes from elsewhere. You might end up with a bad yen for chocolate ice cream, but is that really such a bad trade? You can always work on that after the big problem is fixed.



I'm rooting for you. Let us know how it goes, definitely.

JMS,

The Doc said since vivtrol is new to his practice, he and the staff have to undergo training on safety, admin, contradictions and adverse reactions. I will be traveling on business for a few weeks so not likely to get injected until next month. Will keep pills in the pocket at all times. My AF day yesterday was actually a winner in several ways. I watched the football game sober and fully enjoyed it. (I always drank during football games). My wife was very pleasant and I think she appreciated the effort. Actually slept well in my own bed. No hangover, no ibprofens, no cotton mouth during the night. I really have no excuses not to stop. Right now debating with mybadself wether to take a pill, have a few drinks and continue the extinction, or go the extra mile and make it 2 AF in a row. If I drink tonight, even only a few, I think I'll feel remorseful like, I slipped backwards and will regret it. Regardless, I will do 2 AF days this week.