Hi G4M,

I hope you don't mind my asking - do you have any personal experience of taking baclofen? Was it effective against anxiety/depression? BTW, I have now read Dr Olivier Ameisen's account of taking this medication.

Thanks.

V.

No, I haven't had experience with it. I'm fortunate in that I don't have chronic anxiety, and when life circumstances have set me into depression I can generally use St. John's Wort and other natural OTC remedies to good effect.

A member called ashl combined Naltrexone w/lower doses of baclofen, as he suffered serious anxiety. He reported great success with alcohol reduction as soon as he started using baclofen. Here's the thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=315&hilit=baclofen+naltrexone. I believe ART is also on a similar regimen.

Dr. Amiesen's account includes information regarding the efficiency and safety of baclofen for anxiety, even when used in lower doses. He didn't do naltrexone (TSM wasn't well-known at the time), but did experiment with very high doses of baclofen - and it eliminated his cravings for alcohol completely in a few short weeks. A very dramatic story. . .but I'll take extinction over long-term, high dose medicine any day. But for those with anxiety/depression disorders, the combination of lower doses of baclofen with naltrexone for eventual extinction might be a winning combination - and in at least ashl's case, he reported it was just that.

Specifically, ashl (where are you buddy?), was 100+ UK units per week from weeks 6-9. He added baclofen to his routine, and only drank 35 units during week 10. I'd love to know what's up with him now.

I suspect these kinds of combination meds for addiction and related mood disorders may one day become quite common. For now, we're the guinea pigs. . .

G4M,

Thanks for your reply.

All the best,

V.

Hi ART,

I have just posted a link to this study at General Discussion > Interesting Clinical Trial.

V.

Going4more, as always, another incredibly insightful and useful post. I am really looking forward to, and anticipating the day, that you report a big reduction in your drinking. That being said, I will have to re-read Eskapa's book, but the most GLARING weakness in it so far is his complete disregard of the side-effects of Naltrexone. I will have to double check it, but off the top of my head I remember him saying basically that there are no side-effects, outside of a little nausea for an unlucky few. BULL CRAP! I still feel "spacey" and "queazy" from my last 25 mg dose on Friday, today, Monday morning. Again, I wanted to drink a few beers yesterday to increase the extinction effect, but could not get myself to take that pill because of how it makes me feel. I might add that on Saturday morning, in addition to the extra-strength, super-power hangover, I also experienced what someone else described as a sleep disturbance. Not exactly nightmares, but a weird, unsettling sensation and waking up feeling very uneasy. I AM NOT SAYING IT'S NOT WORTH IT AND I WILL STICK WITH THE PROGRAM. But Eskapa needs to add a meaningful chapter on Naltrexone side-effects after reading our posts. To imply that there are none or that they are minimal is a bit like saying AA has had a resounding success rate. It's misleading and it's crap and only makes me wonder if this glaring omission might not be part of a larger scheme to exaggerate the success of TSM. I remain very hopeful that TSM will work but it's kind of like that significant other who you think is perfect: you catch that very first lie or deception and all of a sudden it makes you wonder if that perfect person may not be as perfect as you initially thought.

Hi Nick - the side effects will pass in a few weeks, maybe sooner. Hang in there.

Not sure why the omission from the book other than perhaps the people Dr. Sinclair worked with didn't report or didn't have the symptoms some of us experienced here. Also, looking back now I barely remember the side effects so I would probably not think to mention them to anybody, maybe that's what happened (after you get into the program the first few weeks fade and the things you are feeling now will not seem so awful). Compared to the side effects I had on Topa through MWO, these are nothing (after being on Topa I was extremely angry & depressed and like you, I felt the MWO author was not forthcoming - how could you not warn a bunch of alcoholics that the drug you are recommending can dramatically add to their depression? That to me was much more unforgiveable).

Either way, I have never seen anything but truth and helpfulness from Dr. Eskapa on this board and I suspect when/if he does a revised addition he will use some of the material from this board, including more information on the side effects and how long they last.

Hi Nick,

Agree with your comment regarding understated side-effects in the book. I adjusted TSM so that 25mg is the max doseage I currently use in my 11th week on the program (you can cut back to 12.5mg to start, and work your way up to 25mg -- if that'll work for you and stop the nasty side effects). I did so based on Dr. Eskapa's response to my question regarding "Duration of Occupancy of Opiate Receptors by Naltrexone", posted here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=339

I'm having great success with the 25mg protocol, and saving money too...

Try dropping down to 12.5 and working your way up to 25mg over a week to see if it helps you deal with the discomfort.

Netty

Thanks, happy4once. In reading the posts it does seem that almost everybody says the side effects go away after a while so I will keep that in mind. That being said, I just re-read Eskapa's book and I was right. Here is what he says about side effects on page 117 under "What Should You Expect to Happen":

"The answer is no two people are alike. Some people respond to treatment more quickly than others. Generally, naltrexone side effects are rare and include symptoms like mild itchiness or transient nausea."

That's it. For those of us with the substantial side effects, to say that this is a disservice is an under statement. Especially in contrast to what has been written on the board here. OK, I'll quit my bitching and wait for my symptoms to pass.

I don't think most people have extreme side effects. Those who do are much more likely to write about them here, so it might give the (wrong) impression that this is the norm. I experienced no nausea at all. For the first 2-3 weeks I did get spaced out, and sometimes shaky and sweaty. But that passed quickly. Even those who have strong SE's find they subside after a few weeks. It may be that Dr. E. underplayed side effects so as not to discourage alcoholics from trying TSM. Getting healthy is SO worth it!

Just take it slow and easy. . .