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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Oregon, USA
Blue79 wrote:
Currently im using nodict, I think -Q- is being unfair here.

I'll let ye know if its any good in a few months, but i think its much the same as standard naltrexone except you are less likely to get stomach irritation due to the coating on the pill.


What is it that I'm doing that is unfair?

What I am doing is warning people about a potential issue with one brand of NAL, Nodict, that could be ineffective for TSM treatment. If I'm right (and the information we have now says I am), then this warning will help people avoid failure on TSM. If I'm wrong, then some company out there loses a few sales. It isn't as if Nodict is the only form of NAL out there for us to use. There are multiple brands and Naltima is one brand that is available from multiple internet vendors.

Given that we have multiple sources and brands of NAL to chose from, we don't need to worry about one product not being usable to us. Moreover, I really don't care if some company out there makes money or not on our NAL purchases. I'm sure they are making 400%-500% profit on the other drugs they sell, so I doubt they will miss the sales. What I am concerned about is the well being and success of those who want to commit to TSM. This isn't some kind of popularity contest. None of us here have a vested interest in any of the vendors who we buy from..

Q

_________________
Started TSM: February 2009 Cured: August 2009

Restart TSM: July 2012 (65 units/week)

Weekly Progress:
Units: 45, 41, 44, 53, 42, 45, 41, 42, 40, 48, 39, 27, 12, 30, 45, 35, 45, 50, 48, 50, 35, 46, 44, 56, 52, 45


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:29 am
Posts: 420
Nutella wrote:
Debbie is 100% right - Nodict is not a time released formulation.


How do you know this?

~Q~ wrote:
If I'm right (and the information we have now says I am),


Really? can you post it ?

Curi

_________________
Pre TSM 50u/w Started 24/06/11
50mg 12-16-19-24
25mg 28-17-18-15-13-10-7
25/12.5mg 8-7-8-6-6-10-6
12.5mg 6-5-4-etc
2-3u/session 2-3/week since Sept 2011


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Oregon, USA
CuriousOne wrote:

~Q~ wrote:
If I'm right (and the information we have now says I am),


Really? can you post it ?

Curi



Yes, we've talked about the topic in 2-3 other threads -- search no working? :). I don't have time at the moment, but I'll list the threads with the information indicating Nodict is very likely some form of a time released tablet.

Q!

_________________
Started TSM: February 2009 Cured: August 2009

Restart TSM: July 2012 (65 units/week)

Weekly Progress:
Units: 45, 41, 44, 53, 42, 45, 41, 42, 40, 48, 39, 27, 12, 30, 45, 35, 45, 50, 48, 50, 35, 46, 44, 56, 52, 45


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:29 am
Posts: 420
~Q~ wrote:
-- search no working? :).

Q!


Behave! :) I've posted in most of the said threads, though it's possible that I've missed recent posts where you posted information that Nodict is time release.

Curi

_________________
Pre TSM 50u/w Started 24/06/11
50mg 12-16-19-24
25mg 28-17-18-15-13-10-7
25/12.5mg 8-7-8-6-6-10-6
12.5mg 6-5-4-etc
2-3u/session 2-3/week since Sept 2011


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:52 pm
Posts: 116
Quote:
"Nodict is not a time released formulation"

How do you know this?


Two ways:

1. I can see it. The tablet has regular, easily dissolvable coating (runb the tablet under the water, see the coating is gone in seconds). And it's quite bitter inside, meaning no microencapsulation.

2. Currently, there is no extended release formulation of naltrexone in tablet form made commercially anywhere in the world. XR formulations cost more to develop and even make and they don't work in exactly the same way (duh). Why would a generics maker consciously go for a trouble of making something that costs more but does not have exact equivalents? That does not make sense.

I do now believe that Nodict is "different" (I am about to post a new message on that) but it sure is not an extended release formulation.


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:59 am
Posts: 29
There seems to be a lot of talk about this lately. I for one have never used Nodict and can see why some people would be wary of it as I wouldn't want to spend months on it to then realise it didn't work. Regarding some if the things being said. I wasn't aware there where slow release tablets made by the big companies.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMPORTANT: Make sure to specify that you do NOT want LDN in a slow-release form.

Reports have been received from patients that their pharmacies have been supplying a slow-release form of naltrexone. Pharmacies should be instructed NOT to provide LDN in an "SR" or slow-release or timed-release form. Unless the low dose of naltrexone is in an unaltered form, which permits it to reach a prompt "spike" in the blood stream, its therapeutic effects may be inhibited.

Fillers. Capsules of LDN necessarily contain a substantial percentage of neutral inactive filler. Experiments by the compounding pharmacist, Dr. Skip Lenz, have demonstrated that the use of calcium carbonate as a filler will interfere with absorption of the LDN capsule. Therefore, it is suggested that calcium carbonate filler not be employed in compounding LDN capsules. He recommends either Avicel, lactose (if lactose intolerance is not a problem), or sucrose fillers as useful fast-release fillers.

> IMPORTANT: Make sure to fill your Rx at a compounding pharmacy that has a reputation for consistent reliability in the quality of the LDN it delivers.

The FDA has found a significant error rate in compounded prescriptions produced at randomly selected pharmacies. Dr. Bihari has reported seeing adverse effects from this problem. Please see our report, Reliability Problem With Compounding Pharmacies. Please see the above list of recommended pharmacies for some suggested sources.

http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could it be the fillers?

I don't personally thing its the coating. I currently use Nalorex from the NHS here in the UK which has a coating but hasn't been hampering my progress.

_________________
Stared TSM 25/07/2012

Pre TSM 50-90 UK

Weeks...

(1) 42 - 1AF (2) 31 - 2AF (3) 45 - 0AF (4) 33 - 1AF (5) 35 - 0AF (6) 29 - 1AF (7) 22 - 2AF (8) 25 - 2AF
(9) 12 - 4AF

Calculate your units....

http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccalcoh3.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:59 am
Posts: 29
http://ldn.proboards.com/index.cgi?boar ... thread=867

LDN FILLERS

If your Low Dose Naltrexone comes from a compounding
pharmacy and arrives as a liquid, then you're getting pure
naltexone powder dissolved in distilled water. This is probably
the "purest" way to ingest naltrexone. You don't need to worry
about fillers.

BUT -- If you get your LDN in any other form, you're
swallowing filler.

A "filler" is an inert, inactive ingredient that accompanies every
dose of naltrexone you take.

If you make your own LDN --

If you make LDN by crushing ReVia (pronounced REV-yah)
or another commercially manufactured 50mg naltrexone tablet,
you're still injesting filler, because each tablet is comprised of
about 16% Naltrexone and 84% filler.

What kind of filler is in your tablet? This depends on the
manufacturer. Here are the main manufacturers:

Barr Labs – Barr manufactures naltrexone under the brand
name ReVia for the US and Canadian markets. This tablet
contains 50mg naltrexone and these inactive ingredients:
lactose monohydrate, colloidal silicone dioxide, magnesium
stearate, crospovidone, microcrystalline cellulose, purified
water, Opadry beige (coloring). [Information from Barr Labs
phone representative.]

Bristol Myers Squibb – BMS manufactures naltrexone under
the brand name ReVia in markets other than the US and
Canada. As of 2002, their 50 mg tablets contain 50 mg of
naltrexone hydrochloride, plus these inactive ingredients (filler):
lactose, microcrystalline cellulose, crospovidone, silicon
dioxide, magnesium stearate, and pale yellow Opadry
(colouring). [Information from a 2002 leaflet by Australian
Prescription Products Guide.]

Mallinckrodt – makes a 50mg naltrexone pill called Depade.
This tablet contains 50mg naltrexone, plus these inactive
ingredients (filler): crospovidone, hydropropyl methylcellulose,
lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline
cellulose, polyethelene glycol, polysorbate 80, silicone dioxide,
titanium dioxide, yellow iron oxide, and red iron oxide.
[Information from Mallinckrodt website.]

[Historical Note: The original ReVia was made by Dupont.
The inactive ingredients were: lactose, microcrystalline
cellulose, crospovidone, silicon dioxide, magnesium stearate,
and pale yellow Opadry (colouring). In 2001, Bristol Myers
Squibb acquired DuPont Pharmaceuticals. In April 2002,
BMS sold the ReVia brand-name rights in the US and Canada
to Barr Laboratories. BMS continues to market ReVia outside
of the US and Canada.]

If your LDN is made by a compounding pharmacy –

Ask your pharmacist how it is made.

1. Some compounders make LDN by crushing commercially
manufactured 50mg tablets and putting the powder into
capsules. Because the amount of powder that goes into each
capsule is not enough to fill the capsule, most pharmacies add
additional filler. If this is how you get your LDN, you can find
out which commercially manufactured tablet is being used and
what kind of additional filler is being added.

2. Other compounders don't crush 50mg tablets; instead, they
use pure naltrexone powder (purchased in bulk from
pharmaceutical companies), which they mix with filler. From
these pharmacists, you can learn what kind of filler you are
taking.

Here are some of the most common fillers used by
compounding pharmacists:

LACTOSE: Lactose is a naturally-occurring simple
carbohydrate, or sugar, found only in the milk of mammals. For
this reason, it is also commonly referred to as "milk sugar."

Lactose has long been used as a soluble filler in the manufacture
of orally administered pharmaceuticals. It is safe, stable,
inexpensive, and has a fast dissolution rate. Pharmaceutical-
grade lactose powder is highly pure, and specifically produced
to meet government standards of safety and purity.

Lactose is easily tolerated by most patients. However, if you
are lactose-intolerant (that is, if milk products give you nausea,
diarrhea, abdominal cramping, bloating, or flatulence), you
might want to try another filler.

Note: Dr Bihari asks his patients to use lactose, unless they
have an adverse reaction… not because he believes lactose is
better than other fillers, but because he began his study of LDN
with lactose, and he wants his records to be consistent.

ACIDOPHILOUS – (pronounced Ah-SID-uh-FILL-us) – is
lactic bacteria, or one-celled micro-organisms, used by the
body to promote immunity and proper nutrition. Sold over the
counter as a nutritional supplement and digestive aid,
Acidophilus is sometimes used as a treatment for diarrhea and
constipation. It is commercially available as powder, tablets,
capsules or liquid.

Lactose-intolerant patients sometimes switch to Acidophilus
filler in their LDN capsules.

AVICEL – a brand name for microcrystalline cellulose. Avicel
has been used safely and effectively for 35 years in the food
and pharmaceutical industries. Virtually inert, it is not absorbed
into the system, and will not interfere or interact with other
nutrients, vitamins or minerals. Avicel is made of wood which
has been purified and powdered into extremely tiny particles --
between 0.000039 and 0.0001560 of an inch of pure fiber,
with the consistency of a very fine face powder.

Avicel is the filler used by Skip's Pharmacy in Boca Raton.
For a fun history of Avicel, "Let Us Have Nothing To Eat,"
CLICK HERE.

CALCIUM CARBONATE – a mineral that occurs naturally
in limestone, marble and coral. Crushed to a fine, flavorless,
odourless powder, it is a natural food additive, and the most
common ingredient in calcium supplements and antacids.

Calcium is absorbed by the small intestine and is used by the
body to build bone tissue. Calcium supplements are generally
well tolerated, but in some patients may cause constipation,
bloating, gas and flatulence.

People with kidney stones, hypercalcemia, sarcoidosis,
hyperparathyroidism, hypervitaminosis D or cancer should not
take calcium carbonate.

People taking calcium supplements are usually advised to take
them with food.

There has been some concern among LDN users that calcium
carbonate is occasionally packed too tight in the capsule, which
can cause a slow-release reaction, rather than the desired fast-
release.

IMPORTANT: Make sure to specify that you do NOT want LDN in a slow-
release form.

Reports have been received from patients that their pharmacies have
been supplying a slow-release form of naltrexone. Pharmacies should
be instructed NOT to provide LDN in an "SR" or slow-release or timed-
release form. Unless the low dose of naltrexone is in an unaltered
form, which permits it to reach a prompt "spike" in the blood stream,
its therapeutic effects may be inhibited.

Fillers. Capsules of LDN necessarily contain a substantial percentage
of neutral inactive filler. Experiments by the compounding
pharmacist, Dr. Skip Lenz, have demonstrated that the use of calcium
carbonate as a filler will interfere with absorption of the LDN
capsule. Therefore, it is suggested that calcium carbonate filler not
be employed in compounding LDN capsules. He recommends either Avicel,
lactose (if lactose intolerance is not a problem), or sucrose fillers
as useful fast-release fillers.




Any questions about filler should be referred to your
doctor or your pharmacist.

_________________
Stared TSM 25/07/2012

Pre TSM 50-90 UK

Weeks...

(1) 42 - 1AF (2) 31 - 2AF (3) 45 - 0AF (4) 33 - 1AF (5) 35 - 0AF (6) 29 - 1AF (7) 22 - 2AF (8) 25 - 2AF
(9) 12 - 4AF

Calculate your units....

http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccalcoh3.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:29 am
Posts: 420
Thank you Nutella and Yutiro,

Nutella, I suspect the same as you, it's probably not a time release but I suspect that the composition is somehow different, either it contains a lower does of Nal or the fillers are different to other forms of Nal, and possibly counteract the effect of the Nal, or something.

This is why I am curious to see/read the patient info leaflets that should be in the box of Nodict, to compare it with other brands of Nal.

Thank you, Yutiro for those posts, I had found similar information myself in LDN forums, many posts on those forums question Nodict too...

Can anyone scan and post or type out the chemical composition of Nodict and other forms of Nal from the patient info? I think this would be the most helpful at the moment. I take ReVia but I threw the box away (not the tablets).

Curi

_________________
Pre TSM 50u/w Started 24/06/11
50mg 12-16-19-24
25mg 28-17-18-15-13-10-7
25/12.5mg 8-7-8-6-6-10-6
12.5mg 6-5-4-etc
2-3u/session 2-3/week since Sept 2011


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:59 am
Posts: 29
A few from the above post + Antaxone

Barr Labs – This tablet
contains 50mg naltrexone and these inactive ingredients:
lactose monohydrate, colloidal silicone dioxide, magnesium
stearate, crospovidone, microcrystalline cellulose, purified
water, Opadry beige (coloring).

Bristol Myers Squibb – As of 2002, their 50 mg tablets contain 50 mg of
naltrexone hydrochloride, plus these inactive ingredients (filler):
lactose, microcrystalline cellulose, crospovidone, silicon
dioxide, magnesium stearate, and pale yellow Opadry
(colouring).

Mallinckrodt – makes a 50mg naltrexone pill called Depade.
This tablet contains 50mg naltrexone, plus these inactive
ingredients (filler): crospovidone, hydropropyl methylcellulose,
lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline
cellulose, polyethelene glycol, polysorbate 80, silicone dioxide,
titanium dioxide, yellow iron oxide, and red iron oxide.

50 mg capsules Antaxone -
Lactose monohydrate
Magnesium stearate

_________________
Stared TSM 25/07/2012

Pre TSM 50-90 UK

Weeks...

(1) 42 - 1AF (2) 31 - 2AF (3) 45 - 0AF (4) 33 - 1AF (5) 35 - 0AF (6) 29 - 1AF (7) 22 - 2AF (8) 25 - 2AF
(9) 12 - 4AF

Calculate your units....

http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccalcoh3.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Nodict is NOT a time released product
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:39 pm
Posts: 112
http://www.drugs.com/pro/naltrexone.html


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