I'm working on talking with RV about getting the proper access so we can post this as a sticky thread on the boards so others are warned about this as well. No need to have anyone else backslide or have a difficult time with TSM because they aren't getting good NAL.




I'll get their. I know what the finish like feels like, so I just have my eyes on the end goal!

Q! It's been a few years!

I was one of the “drop outs” after almost a year of following TSM to the “T”.

But, I always ordered my Nal from River. Now you are all making me wonder if there was a reason it didn’t work! Bad Nal?

I gave up for a while and then started Topa again. In a few months I was much better and having AF days and drinking 2-3 glasses on the days I did drink. But again – I had the weight loss issue. I dropped almost 20 pounds (which I cannot afford) and so decided a few weeks ago to stop the Topa. Crap.

I always wondered why Nal did not work for some of us. I am still in touch with Houtx and a few of the other “pioneers”.

BUT, I want to post something important to you in regards to health insurance. I found a new DR. I told them I had NO insurance and used a fake name, fake SS# (look up how it should read if you change yours), gave them a diff BD and said I would be a cash client. They have only my cell phone number. When asked for picture ID, I told them my wallet had just been stolen.

Long and short of it is I have found a GREAT new DR who is well informed about Topa and Nal and ADs. And my appointment was LESS than if I had used my insurance and paid the deductible and NOTHING on my “record”. So – there IS a way around this game.

I’m not sure what direction I will take as far as going back on Topa or trying Nal again that I can get from him. But you may want to try my method with a new DR. I was scared as hell … but it worked!


Is RV still around? I have not been on this forum for so long! Still looking for the answer.

Sorry you have had to come back – but happy you did.

WTE

WaitingToExhale,

Yes, it has been for ever! Where does time go!

I am absolutely convinced that Nodict (the Nal river sells) will not work with TSM unless you chew the Nodict tablets. The reason you did not see success with TSM is because of Nodict.

If you can get NAL that is NOT Nodict, it will work for you.

RV is still around. He went abstinent and remains so.

Q

PS: I am happy to hear from an old friend! Glad you messaged!
.

So Q ...

How and where are you getting your Nal from?

Without the insurance issue stuff?

There were so many of us that failed that year .... but I wonder fi we were ALL buying bfrom River (???) I know Houtx was for sure.....

WTE

http://www.alldaychemist.com/

All Day Chemist sells an uncoated version of Nal, called Naltima that is actually cheeper than NAL from river.

The NAL from River will work but you have to chew the tablets. The NAL from river, Nodict, is coated and therefore could be time released which won't work for us. TSM needs the full dose of NAL right away.

Q

I am responding to N101CS a couple of posts above this one. Yeah, somebody needs to get Nodict tested. How do we do this? I am terribly upset by the recent news that Nodict may not be effective. I have 4 months and $400 invested in TSM, with lots of Nodict left to go. I have no friends, no support, no doctor, and live in a country where TSM is unknown. All my information (besides Dr. Eskapa's book, of course) comes from this site and River Pharmacy, which is, of course, subject to conflict of interest.

So how can we get Nodict analysed? I don't think we're ever going to get to the bottom of this until we do. I guess there are laboratories that can do it, if provided with samples of Nodict and a couple of other brands of Naltrexone to see how same or different they are. No doubt it would cost something, maybe even a lot, but I for one would be willing to share the costs with other members of this group if anybody a) knows how to proceed and b) is interested, and c) can find a price for the test that won't bankrupt us. Of course there are an awful lot of us--but I don't know how many are concerned about this issue.

I myself have seen success in my quest to conrol my alcoholism, but after a disasterous beginning of having my drinking actually worsen, I added Topomax to my program. Didn't work for me by itself a couple years back, but seems to really help in combination with Naltrexone. I have just switched to Baclofen, which is said to be less dangerous. But with the efficacy of Nodict called into question, I am totally confused as to whether my improvement is due to the Naltrexone or the other drugs. Thanks anybody who's listening.

I'm traveling now and don't have my notes with me but my numbers are something like this:

Pre TSM: 56-70 au per week, 0-1 AF
Several weeks each in the 40's, 30's and 20's over a 4 month period
A couple of weeks in the teens prior to leaving on this trip 3 weeks ago.
Week approximately 18: 19, 4 AF
Week 19: 15, 4 AF
Week 20: 3, 6 AF

Pam,

I'm not sure how we can get Nodict tested. I do believe it has 50mg of Naltrexone in each tablet, I just believe for what ever reason it is a time released tablet.

If you chew it, I believe you will get the same benifit as if you were taking Naltima. When I chew Nodict, I get the same side effects as I do when I take Naltima. Others have reported the same results.

In the mean time, I would put in an order for Naltima from All Day Chemist (much cheaper than River). I also have a huge supply of Nodict. I will only take it if I am completely out of all other Naltrexone and when I do, I will chew it.

You do have a support system here with this community. We will all be here for you and stand behind you in your TSM journey. I have no doubt there are women here in our community who would talk to you by phone if you wanted this. PM me if you would like to explore this further and I will help you get connected with one, or more, of them.

Given your pre-tsm levels, you are likely 8+ months to see a control of your drinking with TSM. It looks to me like you are about 5 months in. If you have been taking Nodict the entire time, it is hard to tell really how much extinction you have experienced. I would reset your clock to 0 and start chewing your Nodict until you can get some Naltima.

I was at your drinking level when I started TSM, and I started seeing real results 7-8 months in.

Q

My two cents but Houtx was mentioned as one person who was not successful on naltrexone and this was said in passing that it must have been the Nordic - but this lovely lady who appears on other forums as well has NOT been successful using several other methods including baclofen. So please I think this is getting into silliness.

These things take on a life of their own just because of unsubstantiated statements! There has never been any proof that lack of success on TSM was down to Nordic. There are so many factors at work. Simply trying another pill and having success in the short term could be the placebo effect too!! I've seen this kind of panic sweep through this community in the past - someone makes a statement and within days it's blown out of all proportion. And when River tries to protect their business this is seen as nefarious in some way. Please people think about the power of these posts to do real harm.

So let's not spread it around here that Nordic is not a good product, or that you have to chew it. I think we have to assume it's fine unless we KNOW differently.

I posted on another of Q’s threads that in fact Houtx was NOT taking Nordic.

Having said that – I was. And WHY did so many of us, perhaps 60% or more (?) fail or fall away that were taking Nordic from River?

I am far from wanting a “panic sweep” – but there are numbers that are seeming to add up here. If we are hearing from a number of people that HAD TSM success and switched to Nordic (for whatever reason) and are now sliding back – is that NOT something to really look at?

I don’t know your previous name here, so can’t comment on your past experience. But you are back here why? Did TSM work the 1st time for you? Are you sliding? What were you taking?

And BTW, Houtx is a personal buddy of mine. Bac did not work because of SERIOUS side effects and she had to quit early in the game. I think we should all stop name dropping and let each speak for themselves.

But I STILL think Q is on to something …..

I only brought up Houtx because she came to mind when I was writing my response. Come to find out, she wasn't taking Nodict, but that's not the point. The point is, a large percentage of the people who start TSM on here quit. If I had to guess at the percentage, I would guess it to be opposite the success of TSM reported by Sinclair. Why is that? Sinclair claims thousands of people in Finland have been cured at a 78% success rate. Why is our community nearly opposite this number?

This isn't a new issue that was brought up in the last week or so. Questions about the effectiveness of Nodict have been floating around this forum for 6mon to a year (perhaps longer). The problem is, these posts are hit and miss and end up getting burred and fall out of sight. This topic is only just now being highlighted, as I asked N101CS for forum access to sticky the topic so it doesn't get buried again. In the last week or so, I've had half a dozen people contact me claiming to have backslide on Nodict and/or failed at TSM while on Nodict. Moreover, 3-4 people have posted to these threads in the last week or two with similar experiences.

This is not silliness, it is a red flag.




We may not have hard evidence or information from a credentialed professional, but what we do have is mounting circumstantial evidence that Nodict may not be an effective form of NAL for TSM. With a dozen or more people coming forward with issues, I think we need to take a good hard look at this and make sure everyone is informed on what is being reported.

The real harm in this situation is if Nodict is in fact ineffective and we recommend people take this medication -- we would be setting people up to fail. There is no harm if we are wrong in our suspicions and members order a different form of NAL from River or All Day Chemist. At most, the pharmaceutical company loses a few sales. I hardly see this as very harmful.



I believe we need to take just the opposite stance on this topic. I believe we need to warn users that Nodict may not be effective with TSM, as reported by other users on this forum, so that they can make an informed decision on which medication to use for their treatment. It would be highly irresponsible of us to sit on this information because we are worried about a vendor getting his/her noise bent out of shape about lost sales.