Hi everyone

I am a true believer in TSM and Naltrexone, and have followed the programme faithfully for the past 17 months. Although I haven't read the book, I had read enough of the posts and discussions to understand how it works. 99% of the times that I had a drink, I would have taken my Nal a full hour beforehand. I have only drunk without having taken Nal on a handful of occasions, usually when I was offered a drink which I hadn't expected, when I wasn't planning to drink. Once I forced myself to abstain for a week while I was waiting for another shipment of Nal to arrive. My cousin was sure that this showed that the treatment was working, but as I told her, I had to employ extreme self discipline not to drink, in order not to jeopardise any success the treatment may have been having.

When I started TSM, I was drinking 5 litres of wine within 3 days. After a couple of months of TSM, I reduced my consumption VERY slightly, but it soon increased again, back to my pre TSM days. About a month ago, I gave up. I am now back to drinking without Nal, and I am extremely disappointed. As I said at the beginning, I still believe that TSM works, and will sing it's praises to anyone who will listen, but unfortunately it didn't work for me. Does anyone have any idea why this happened? I remember reading about one woman who held on for 15 months, before the Nal kicked in, and she stopped craving alcohol. Perhaps I should have carried on, but honestly, I thought that 17 months of faithful adherence should have done the trick. I just don't understand it. Does anyone have any light to shed on this matter? Does anyone know of anyone who has stuck faithfully with TSM for longer than 17 months, and then lost their craving, as expected? Although the whole experience has cost me a lot of money, with no results to show for it, I would be prepared to try again if I thought that there was hope. Of course, I know that by drinking without Nal for the last month or 2 I would have undone any good that my 17 months of diligence had achieved, but unfortunately that can't be helped.

I am open to any suggestions, advice, or information that anyone has. Thanks very much in advance.

All the best to you all.

Hi Jeanette!!

I admire your commitment and sincerity to stick to the method for so long. And I am sorry it did not work for you so far. Did you not see any benefits ever?

I am new to Nal so I cant comment on why it didnt work. Well they say it does not work for every one and that scares me too.. what if it doesnt work for me as well.

Here are a few things I am incorporating in addition to taking Nal - I read the book by Alan Carr "How to control your drinking - EASYWAY". That obviously doesn't stop me from drinking but it did force me to ask myself some tough questions - about my beliefs regarding alcohol, what does it give me. It took most of the glamour out of drinking. And I guess that helps to reduce the Deprivation effect to a certain extent.

Also, I am incorporating some meditation and deep breathing to fill in the emptiness inside that I usually fill with Alcohol. For me Alcohol is not the only problem - its a crutch to deal with my lack of cheer, inner emptiness and deal with problems which I feel non alcoholics are able to deal with without alcohol. I need to work on other aspects as well.

I dont know howz your situation but it might help to address other aspects of life along with using Nal. Just my 2 cents. I wish you find your own way that works for you.

It's my understanding that although it works for most people, it doesn't work for everyone and you may be a non-responder. There is a test you can have done to determine whether or not you have the gene that responds to TSM.

One other thing, I've not finished the book but the bit I have read does say that if you do drink without having taken Nal, then the progress made whilst drinking with Nal is reversed pretty quickly.

I've never NOT been covered by Nal when I've drunk, even when I've been in situations when I was offered a drink. There was one instance however when I did forget, took a sip and realised I'd not taken my nal BUT I had taken a nal the previouse evening (this was lunchtime) and I believe I would still have had some nal on my receptors. I finished my drink and immediately took another 25mg Nal, hoping it would knock any endorphins off my receptors. I didn't take another drink until later that day and an extra 12.5mg dose(figured I probably didn't need another 25mg after already having 50mg in just under 24 hours!).

Does sound like you are a non-responder unfortunately.

I'm sorry that it's been such a long struggle.

For some lucky people, TSM has immediate and obvious results. For others it's a longer trail marked by many ups and downs. For some, it seems TSM/Nal isn't the answer. At least not by itself.

Two things to consider:

-- Many have reported the need to mix in some level of willpower/moderation to add AF days into the mix. In a number of cases, especially those who don't respond right away, this seems to be a key ingredient. You might look at Heavy Fuel and Ketchikan 1's threads.

From all the reading I've done on this board I'm convinced that using Nal alone, without an active effort to both cut quantity and frequency, does not work for some people.

-- The baclofen approach. Some people have had great luck switching to the baclofen, or suing it in combination with Nal and TSM. Some addiction experts believe the two together are better than either one alone. You can find more here:

http://www.olivierameisen.com/en/

http://www.mywayout.org/community/f20/

Hope you find a solution! Best wishes --

Yes this does seem to be the case, I know Nal simply enables me to make a choice(which is one reason I like it because it makes me feel incontrol), but I have to act on that choice and I get a sense of acheivment.

Hi Jeannette,

Are you sure nal didn`t work in any way ? It worked for me in many ways, but my wife`s situation (coupled with depression) got worse, maybe because she didn`t use it regularly as she should have (i.e. 1 hour before drinking). Anyway, in some ways nal did help her; she doesn`t have hangovers now, and she can stop at some point and go to bed. Are your hangovers or binges like before, or did you get any improvements ?

Can you please advise what test is this ?

Hi Janette and Welcome!

It's hard to answer you from what you have posted. Dr. E doesn't post here anymore which is why we are answering you instead.

First off, I think it would be a good idea to read the book, Dr. Sinclair explains and discusses a lot of things that are not mentioned on this forum. You can download the ebook here: http://www.amazon.com/The-Cure-Alcoholi ... in_title_0

You say that you were drinking over 1.5l of wine per day (5l in 3 days). How many hours does it take you to drink that? Is it over a few hours at night or are you sipping all day? I ask this because if it is the latter, the chances are that you would need to take Nal twice a day, Dr. Sinclair talks about this in his book. Naltrexone, like every medication, wears off gradually, so if you are taking it in the morning or afternoon, it's only half as effective 4 to 6 hours later, this means that you are not fully covered later in the evening.

Did you feel anything taking Nal? Any side effects? Nausea?, worse hangovers?, wine tasting different? lethargy?

Did you keep a diary of how much you drank every day ? This is really helpful because it allows us to objectively evaluate our progress, if we don't record anything, number of units, how we feel etc... we miss out on some vital information.

Some people are more or less sensitive to Naltrexone, for example, 50 mg was too much for me and was making me too ill but when I dropped to 25mg I felt much better and my units dropped too, I know of other people for whom 50mg wasn't enough so they took 75mg or even 100. I think it could be something you could try.

Are you taking other medication that might interfere with Naltrexone ?

Whether you take Nal or not, another golden rule is to NEVER drink on an empty stomach or when you are thirsty. Hunger and thirst are the two major physical triggers, so always drink a large glass of water before you start drinking and either eat a meal before or early into your drinking or at least have a pro tine snack, these alone will drop your units and the urgency to drink.

I think you should give it another try, but differently this time. Read the book. Start a progress report here, record your units and record events and feelings. Try taking 75mg if you are a night time drinker or taking 2X50mg if an all day drinker. Improve your eating habits, eat and drink when you take your Nal. And see how it goes

Good luck.

Curi

Hi everyone

Thanks so much to everybody who responded to my plea for help!

To answer some of the questions which were raised:- no, I didn't seem to have any side effects from the Nal; unfortunately I can't remember the dosage I was on; although keeping a diary of my consumption would have been a good idea, I am sure that I only had a couple of weeks, about 6 - 8 months into the programme, when I seemed to be drinking less, but it soon reverted to my previous level; I basically drink every day, and would consume my 1.5 l of wine in an evening, although sometimes on the weekends, I would start drinking at lunchtime. As I said, I almost ALWAYS took the Nal an hour before I drank. I only have hangovers extremely rarely, for example if I am very stressed and drink more than normal.

Although having AF days sounds like a good idea, I seem to remember that Dr Sinclair said that his rats didn't practice self discipline, or have AF days, and yet the Nal worked for them!

It makes sense to do some inner searching as to why I started drinking, and I will look into that. I also like the tip about not being hungry or thirsty before drinking.

Does anyone know anything about the test I could take to see if I have the gene which makes Nal ineffective? At least if I find out that I do have the gene, I won't feel like such a failure.

I am still determined to find a solution to my problem, and will keep you posted. Thanks again.

All the best to you all,

Jeanette

Someone on MWO posted a link to the site where you can get the test done, when I get a bit more time I'll see if I can find it.

Regards rats, I have a feeling humans have slightly more powers of reasoning/unreasoning than they. Most lower animals operate soley on instinct and learned behaviour, so I'd guess we need to exert more control over the side of our brain telling us to drink. Seem to remember the Finnish study found that counselling with TSM was the most effective or something. Don't think rats would respond or require counselling.

Regards your intake it is perfectly normal for your drinking to return to normal levels, mine actually never did but the majority do report this phenomena.