Yeah, that "tooth" for the hard stuff is tough. I'll really know TSM is working for me when that craving starts to wane. Nal took down my craving for beer and especially wine, but vodka and bourbon are still a problem.

At about 5 months in, this week is an up and down thing. Mostly higher up than I'd like, but what else is new? Reread a bunch of "cured" peoples' threads to regain inspiration. If I'm lucky I'll hit the off switch in the coming months like some of the successful ones.

It would be really interesting to see how TSM works differently for binge and daily drinkers. Based on the anecdotes on the board, it's my impression that people who are super-responders tend to be bingers. Any one else have a hunch? There's a lot of speculation in the threads that "dailies" make it to extinction faster because of the regularity of NAl +AL. But then maybe we are more hard-wired because we've been drinking steadily for longer? Just speculative musings.

This is where more scientific studies of TSM would be valuable.

It's a good question Tiller. I, being a binge drinker myself, tend to notice two different things. One, is that binge drinkers seem to respond to the anti-craving power of nal more quickly, and are able to have less per session very soon after starting TSM, but tend ot have rockier ups and downs. However, the other thing is that daily drinkers seem to just hit a turning point, where all of a sudden they can have AF days, cut down, etc. I do have this fear that binge drinkers will always have that desire to binge in some aspect of our lives, because it's not just all about alcohol dependency for us. But maybe I'm just projecting my fears.

Hi Tiller

(My son's name is Tillman and I call him Tiller for short sometimes... so I always like seeing your name!)

Thanks for your constant support and presence on the board here. It means a lot to me and everybody.

I have been thinking about the difference between bingers and habit-drinkers (i am definitely a habit drinker) lately. I do have a sense that it may be a fundamentally different journey if you fall squarely in one camp or another. For instance, I envy people who have AF days right away (or always have, as EL reports) and can incorporate them into their initial TSM experience...but I have no idea what that's like, or when I will have that breakthrough to an AF day. On the other hand, I don't have some of the scarier things happen to me because my life and drinking is so structured. With my latest slippage into more AUs, the worst thing that's happened is graying/blacking out (which sucks) as well as maybe this "greying-out" of my general mood. I also wonder if we "habit people" have to contend with more chronic low-level depression rather than huge mood swings.

Not sure if these are "odious comparisons"--I am only wondering about these differences because it would be helpful to know if what I am dealing with is somewhat normal given my style of alcoholism. If it can be called a style. More like a uniform.

Btw it's subtle but as I read through your thread I detect a steady, gradual lifting of your mood and optimism over time. Would you agree?

Deja

I'll headline this post: TSM Is Not Easy.

I don't mean this post to be discouraging. Quite the opposite. I want to recognize the effort that so many here are putting into a process that can help us reclaim our lives.

One of the most misleading ideas in Dr. Eskapa's book is the subtitle on the cover: Drink Your Way Sober Without Willpower, Abstinence or Discomfort.

As many on this board have reported, at some point willpower can be needed to make a breakthrough. That often comes rather late in an individual's journey.

Discomfort is another matter. I know that he's referring to the fact that TSM does not require white-knuckling through hard cravings. But there is a good deal of discomfort -- and difficulty -- for many people who use the method.

I think we need to be honest and unapologetic about how hard this can be at times. We owe this to ourselves and to others who come here to learn about TSM. We are united in a desire to get our addiction under control, and united in having to continue to feed that addiction in order to extinguish it. This is not an easy leap of faith to make, especially as the booze continues to take its toll on our bodies and minds and daily well-being.

It is also hard to do this work in the absence of broad social supports. Many on the board are getting their Nal online or are essentially misleading their MDs by promising that they are using Nal for abstinence and not TSM. The dominant AA model of recovery does not support TSM. Many people don't know about it. And the science behind it, while encouraging, is hardly rock solid. So, some skeptics dismiss this approach as being a license to drink.

It's not. No license needed for that, after all.

Like all medical/psychological interventions, TSM does not work for everyone. The success rates seem to be far better than AA. But we still have to pledge ourselves to a long process with the risk of coming up short of our goal.

Another challenge is the relative lack of support from those who have succeeded with TSM. AA and Smart Recovery and etc have long-term moderators and long-term communities of support. That's partly because they continue to place alcohol -- and abstaining from it -- at a central place in their lives. And if it works it works.

But TSMers seem to want to get alcohol out of the center, and so it's natural that once folks gain control they drift away from the community. They lead non-alcoholic lives. They move on. I don't blame them a bit. But it makes the work of those who come anew somewhat more difficult. And it's why people in the middle of TSM are so grateful when an alum comes back to visit. We are going it alone, together. If that makes sense.

What this adds up to for me is that people who are taking TSM seriously and working toward their goal are doing just that: working. TSM can take real courage and commitment. I see that reflected in so many of the posts by people here who are struggling to beat their addiction with a process that is not widely accepted.

That's why I encourage people to come to this board and share their hardships without apologizing. TSM is not easy. But it has worked wonders for thousands of people, saving lives and families. Here's hoping it will work for all of us too.

Hey Deja -- I just posted my "not easy" essay as you were posting to ask if my mood is better. Pretty funny!

It comes and goes for me. I am a daily drinker and I have chronic (treated) depression. One reason I'm doing TSM is to make controlling my depression easier. It's all very hidden. I function well in work and life. Mostly.

I am lucky to have a loving and supportive wife. She worries about my drinking and depression but totally supports me in TSM. I'm very lucky that way. I also have a solid job that I can sort of drift in at the moment. But I need to get more fully back in the game. Another reason for TSM. And for the well-being of my children. That's reason number one.

I think it's really good for us to share as much info as we can on this process and our reactions to it. I, too, am still dreaming of an AF day. Can't quite imagine it now. Although last week I started to feel a glimmer.

Alcohol is a depressant. No wonder your mood goes grey!

Tillman is a great name!

Wow, so much important stuff to respond to...I was mentally composing a reply re: "binge" vs. "daily" - a topic I very much appreciate! - but now I want to respond to the second theme, about TSM being hard. I put that above quote in because I agree, it is NOT true, and also I really, really regret that Eskapa chose to put that on the cover: I rec'd. my copy of the book 18 MONTHS AGO...and was so put off by that quote that I put it in a drawer and discarded the whole notion for about a year. It reminded me too much of "LOSE 20 LBS. IN TWO WEEKS!!!", that type of thing. It cheapens and sloganizes the valid science of the book.

For me, the really hard part is the unknown timetable, and - despite the activity here - the feeling of going alone on this important - & somewhat scary - journey. Really, only the people here have any idea that I'm doing this - my DH is my best friend and I consider our communication to be truthful...yet...I think only people actively involved in the process are the ones I want to be communicating with. He doesn't need to know - it would not be helpful to either of us. So...I'm relying on the kindness of strangers, and it is SO appreciated, and invaluable! When I first joined the forum, I was determined to not get too drawn in and post a lot...but now I see now much it is needed and how helpful it is for me to post, and hope it will help others as much as I am helped. And Tiller, your constancy in that regard it is very much appreciated - and EL, too, and all the others who check in when they can. From the positive tone of your posts, I would never guess that you deal w/ depression...sure not apparent to me. So I appreciate your fighting issues on two fronts. I think a year from now, our lives will be quite different, and AFs will be 'no big deal'. All for now - BBL

Chrissie

I'm happy to say I'm starting the new year without a hangover. Had an early dinner out and then just a few glasses of wine with my wife. Very quiet evening.

I don't make resolutions but I came to two realizations yesterday when I was hungover. They might seem obvious but sometimes that's the hardest to see.

The first I've talked about before. I really have to lay off the hard sauce. I'm using it to drink past the Nal and I can't keep feeling like hell every day.

The other may me more important. In the evenings I may be drinking to combat feelings of anxiety as much as a craving for booze. I may have been doing this for so long that I can't tell the difference any more. Or it may be that Nal has slowly lowered the booze craving and has left the hole-in-the chest anxiety feeling behind. I'm going to start working hard on the anxiety to see if that can help me make it to the next (lower) level of drinking.

Best for 2012 TSMers. Let's add some names to the control/cure list!

Great job Tiller . I'm really happy for you.

Your last paragraph resonates with me; Nal's really helped with the alcohol craving per se, but all the underlying reasons that led to me drinking uncontrollably are still present.

Tiller, congrats on facing the new year without a hangover! I'm in the same boat and man, is it a new and fantastic sensation!!
As for the anxiety in the evenings...I know exactly what you mean. I used to suffer from horrible anxiety and panic attacks (much better now, though not entirely gone). The worst for me was being alone in the evenings and not having a social plan (=drinking). Eventually I realized that drinking alone at home made it a bit better. And then I realized I could go out drinking alone.. etc etc slippery slope. I still sometimes get that anxiety home alone in the evenings but I think now I recognize it for what it is...and manage to sit with the anxiety rather than try and "cure" it. But it's been a long, long process to get there (with much xanax along the way!).
As for the hard stuff...I'm in the same boat. I am not completely ready to give it up, because it would essentially mean giving up drinking for me (I don't drink beer and don't looove wine). But I AM trying to drink more wine, even if it gives me heartburn and/or makes me sleepy a lot. Hence, last night. Terrible evening, but no hangover. I'll take it, right now!

Tiller, you and I are in similar places. I am a daily drinker, and am finding the AF days elusive. I can force them, with minimal effort, but it’s the next day that I pay the price. I simply make up the difference for whatever reason. However, my intake is still dropping. I am slowly tapering off to acceptable levels. It's just slow, which is frustrating!

Your comments as to where everyone goes are probably correct. I find myself coming here less and less. I used to come by the site every couple of hours. Now, it’s once a day. Or maybe once every two. And it’s because I want to find other things to do. And I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. There is hope.

Further, the idea this is a “license to drink” just galls me. I would like nothing more than to punch whoever says that right in the mouth. First, what the hell was I doing that was causing problems? Drinking like a fish. Did I need a “license?” No. In fact, I was doing it over the express objections and negative outcomes of society in general. Second, from my research and personal experience, alcohol addiction is similar to tobacco addictions: there is a social aspect. That’s where TSM is so helpful: it’s a gradual, permanent change in our behaviors.

Good luck my friend and keep on keeping on!