Hi EL,

Squirrel makes a good point, as long as you haven't accepted now is the time for you to ask some additional questions. As a professional recruiter (head hunter) I always tell my candidates the only time you are in the driver's seat in the interviewing process is after an offer has been extended, because now you know they want you. Now with this being said, I don't really know your situation, other than you've been freelancing and things have picked up for you lately, so congrats on that. Additionally, I recommend if you just can't accept the offer without a better understanding of the company's culture, or the offer is to low, and you request an opportunity to speak to them again, then I highly recommend you write down your questions ahead of time, rehearse them, and also go over these questions with a friend so they can tell you how they interpreted your questions. You know sometimes we say something, but it's interpreted differently, so I'd definitely get another person's opinion.

Lastly, if you think you're going to accept, but the offer is low it's o.k. and most of the time at least in the U.S. they expect you to negotiate, so have you asked them this question or something to like this in your own words? You know, I like everything about your company and this opportunity and I am confident that I will not only meet but exceed your expectations in helping you achieve / accomplish XYZ, is XXXX your best offer? And don't break the silence, first one to speak loses. If they say, well what are you looking for? Then they left money on the table. So, I'd say, I was expecting more based on the roles and responsibilities. Again, be quiet. Try to get them to give a range before providing a number. If they keep pushing you for a number, then I'd ask them what is the range for this position? Most likely they will give you a range, and then depending on what you need to pay bills, etc... If 70% meets your needs, then I'd respond around 70% to 75%. For example and using simply math. If the range is 50K to 70K, then I'd tell them that you were really looking to be in the low to mid 60's. If they don't give you a range, and you can live on what they've offered but now know they've left money on the table, because they asked you what you're looking for, then take a shot by adding approximately 10 to 15% to the originally offer.

On the other hand if they say that's our best offer and you're not sure what to do, then it's appropriate to ask them to give you a couple of days.

EL, I hope this helps.

Hi EL

Sorry to hear things haven't been so good. The job does sound dubious. Don't feel bad about not hearing about the Rainbow Warrior. You were only 3 and NZ is a small country!
My week was somewhat OTT too, so let's hope this next week goes better.
Good luck with making the right decision about the job.

Cheers
Sticky

Thanks for the advice guys. What the specifics of this situation are is that I applied for a full-time, salaried job, and the most attractive part of the job is the honestly amazing benefits package. However, only now that the offer has been extended, they've told me they want a 2-3 month "trial" period, during which I would be paid hourly, with no benefits. I personalyl think the trial period is silly because it's obvious I can do the job, but fine, ok. What worries me is that I can't seem to get them to specify a specific date by which a decision will have to be made (both on my end and theirs) as to whether I have passed the trial period and become a full-time employee. Scouring the internet, I've found that they have probably (it is the internet, after all!) screwed people over like this before, keeping them in a temp position and the full-time job never materializing. Some of the other things I have read are absolutely horrific. For example: The employees are always so overworked & miserable.
No sense of accomplishment can ever be realized.
Senior management is absolutely terrible.
XXXX is not a company to work for if you want to feel proud of where you work."
Or: "XXXX TPT Quality Control's infantile and thinly veiled vagaries may be likened to Wayne's World/Beverly Hillbillies meets The Lord of the Flies." The rather succinct: "STAY AWAY FROM XXXX". And: "Read the reviews about XXXX. They all seem to say one thing: STAY AWAY FROM XXXX. In variance with XXXX's infantile mutual admiration society, with few notable exceptions XXXX is merely a hornet's nest of hyped up mediocrity (dummies, dilettantes and parrots), egregiously cheap veneer, nastiness and deceit."
SOUNDS GREAT, no????
I'm in a bit of a bind because monetarily, I think I really have to take this job. I have applied to 253 (yes, 253) jobs since May and NOTHING else has turned up, so....
And although the freelancing is picking up, I am just about only making rent right now, not enough to live on. I would continue to freelance and try and advance that professional avenue while also working at the job (that's the idea anyways).
UGHUGHGHGHGH no wonder I drank.

EL,

I know what company you are looking at now. I would run!!! If you are still entertaining the idea, you NEED to GRILL THEM on what you have read, I saw a number of people complaining about not getting paid what they were owed after completing jobs <--- HUGE RED FLAG!!!. I would also ask about their turnover. I would also guess they have a disproportionate number of HR/Recruiters for the size of the company to keep up with turnover, another red BIG red flag.

I interviewed with a similar company, and politely voiced my concernes over what I had read online. When this much negative press is out there they will expect it from any reasonably intelligent candidate. They will likely have canned answers waiting. But, by asking you can get feel of their reaction, this is just as, if not more important than their verbal response. I would proceed very cautiously on this one, an if after this you still think it is worth it, make sure to negotiate up as RSN said. I would hate to see your first real job be a negative experience, good luck!!!

Wow EL,

I've read your post at least twice trying to come up with some words of wisdom, encouragement something, but frankly I can't seem to find the right thing to say, other than I understand why you drank so much last night and I'll try and give it a shot.

I agree with you 100% that they should give you at least a date, without that, and based on everything else you've said about the company and your situation, that's tough. So, a question and you don't need to respond unless you want, but how much has your freelance business grown in the last two months, and do you think it's realistic for it to continue to grow at that pace over the next 2 months (and beyond) and if this job doesn't work out, drives you crazy, etc.. Will you be able to get your business back to where it is if you lose your job or quit it in 2 months.

The other thing I'm sure that concerns you, is that if they can't give you a date now, what's going to motivate them to give you a drop dead after you start?

Idk; I'm sure you have, but if you're talking to H.R., I'd get a hold of the person you'll report to and ask him for a date and to help you understand how you will be evaluated or at least give you an understanding of what goals you need to accomplish over this period of time to be considered a full-time employee. The other thing that I'm sure raises a red flag for you is; if this is standard operating procedures for bringing on full-time employees then why doesn't your offer letter (I'm assuming you got an offer letter) state something to the effect of unless otherwise informed on the 61st or 91st of day of employment you will be considered a full-time employee and begin to receive full benefits. Plus, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know how things work over there, but unless you fill out the type of health plan you want several weeks a head of time, it would take weeks for it to go into effect.

I don't know EL, I'd continue to try to get some answers. Seriously evaluate your freelance company and where you think you could take it working full-time, but if you decide to take this job, then I'd seriously plan on dedicating yourself to both keeping your freelance company going and making this new job work, so if it doesn't you don't have to start over.

Hell, you do this and you won't have time to drink, so maybe that's the answer.

Seriously, it's 6:25pm my time and I haven't had the first drink which is crazy for me, but I know your in a tough place and felt compelled to respond. I sincerely feel for you and I hope what ever decision you make it works out!!!

Stay sober tonight or at least try and only have a few... You have a lot to think about!! Good Luck.

Hi EL,

After I posted my thoughts / comments I saw and read squirrel's post. He makes a lot of very good comments and apparently knows who this company is, so wow, it doesn't sound good and I'd definitely GRILL them as he suggest.

Good Luck, and I'll be thinking about you!!!!

Hi EL,

I think my last post might be taken a bit rough toward you, I don't mean it to in any way. Also, just to clarify, I personal experience with this company, but, I did find what have you been seeing online. Just trying to share some experience/wisdom to help you make an informed decision, whatever that decision may be.

Best of luck!!!

Hi EL,

I'm sorry to hear you're having such a tough week. It's totally understandable that you over consumed based on what you are going through. I can relate to what you are experiencing with the job issue. IMHO I would take the job and continue developing your freelance work. It's how I did it and it took years. But now I've developed a nice client base and all the crappy part time jobs I endured were definitely worth it. Think of it as a means to an end for now, just a paycheck until you have a stronger client base. I run a professional Business service and just love my freedom and flexibility. So that's my two cents. I hope you are okay and can be easier on yourself. It's tough out there but you're tougher! Nal on.......

Dude (and I do not use that term lightly).... Dude: Something is rotten in Denmark.

That company sounds shady at best. However, if you just need the money to pay rent, take the position and wear armor. Don't get too comfortable and continue your search, maybe even on their time.

Hate to say it, but, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.... it's a duck.

Do keep us posted. I know better times are right around the bend!!!

Chin up, big smile, time to gobble the world,

Ketchikan1

Gah, it's getting shadier and shadier. More incriminating stuff online, and they are refusing to specify an end date for the trial period in the temporary contract (which I asked for), which to means shows that they are in no way interested in hiring me full-time with benefits after the trial period....so now it's pretty clear that this would be a terrible company to work for, and the only thing I'd be getting out of it is a three month paycheck. But which I am likely to get freelancing anyways (though security IS nice, I own't lie). But they probably wont' ever hire me, and I will probably hate working there. And it would go against all of my ethics (they are engaged in some SHADY activity, and it appears they are being investigated by the BBB and FCC for identify theft committed by some of their employees....).
So I think I'm going to say no. But I haven't completely decided yet. I've asked to see the official contract and have the weekend to think about it. I'll have my lawyer friend look it over.