I have been reading about this TSM for a while and found it very fascinating way of treating alcoholism. My friend just have started using nalthexone and he has been maybe two days per week heavy drinker, like drinking everything on sight and then some. He tried AA for a while but did not do any good for him. Just bunch of even worse alcoholics talking about alcohol .

And what I have been reading, AA fails quite miserably. It actually could be even worse for an heavy user aka functioning alcoholic because he/she will meet at the meetings the real "pro" ones. I think this TSM is way forward because for an alcoholic AA is like for a normal people promise to not to ever have sex. Only very few could keep that kind of promise and good for them but it won't help the majority of alcoholics. Any thoughts?

Your likening AA members to being like people promising to never again have sex is so right on! LOL. I suspect you're right that many high functioning alcoholics - and you'll find a very high percentage of members here from that category - can go into meetings and really 'talk the talk.' I know I could. We can be very cerebral, and convincing. I know AA has been a lifeline for many, many people, and wouldn't take that away from them. But this method is going to help a great many more who aren't able to attain and maintain sobriety.

Welcome!

Any method of treatment that doesn't eliminate the craving for alcohol is bound to fail in the long term for most people. AA seems mostly about how to live with cravings and temptations for the rest of your life. A day-to-day struggle. Who wants that?

They are partially correct in their claim "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic". Correct insofar as that until you extinguish the cravings (which they don't do) you remain an alcoholic. So yeah, AA is a good way to remain an alcoholic forever.

TSM, on the other hand, eliminates the cravings. If you don't crave alcohol and don't abuse it - AND it takes no force of will to avoid doing so - are you really an alcoholic anymore? I say no.

Your friend is fortunate to have your support for TSM. I hope you or your friend have read Dr. Eskapa's book, because there is a lot of inaccurate information out there about the use of naltrexone, and it's important to be armed with facts about this method that is anathema to the AA-led conventional wisdom.

Knowledge is power. Your coming here will shore up your knowledge and make you better able to support your friend. Encourage your friend to drop by often as well!

I know alcoholism is very serious matter but imagine a group of people suffering from mental depression and forming "AD" with slogan "Once depressed, always depressed"

It seems so. Many doctors, what I have heard, give naltrexone and say incorrectly "don't drink" and take it every day! I have to check whether that is the case with my friend.

Good points Timmy ....
In AA you'll always be in recovery which really means in addiction effectively .

Another very big difference is that AA does claim that you're an alky because of character defects and only by eliminting them ( fearless moral inventory etc ) will you loose your desire to drink .Tsm turns it on its head we're just the same as normal people but have a bio chemical fueled apetite for alcohol . Whatever other fragilities we might have come from other things life and families have done to us- just like anyone else . And hence , yes, as Bob says high functioning alcoholics do exist ( although I always think of a very high unit score when i hear that phrase !!)

I agree with all of these posts and wish to add that during the time I spent at AA it became increasingly annoying to be told about my selfishness and character defects. I would leave meetings and see I was no different than any of my friends in that regard who did not have problems with alcohol. In some instances better by far. It seemed that it was fine for a non-drinker to be gossipy, hurtful, judgemental etc. and not need to look at any of these things. Also I wondered how I could be such a selfish person when I was a pallitive care nurse who gave my "all" to my patients and their families. So much of it made no sense to me and caused me more harm than good. One of the most aweful things I found about it was, if a extremely stressful event occurred that had nothing at all to do with alcohol, it was still my fault and I was to do a personal inventory about it. I mean for heaven's sake genetic infertility in a partner is my fault?!!!!?
One other point I wish to make are how so many people would stand there and say they were nothing but a drunk and useless before AA. Well I totally disagree. Before AA I got a degree in science, was a high funtioning professional and accomplished many other things personally that all contribute to the richness of what makes up a person's life. Powerless? I think not! The "program" wishes to reduce a person to one aspect and devalue everything else. I despise what I heard and experienced there and cringe at the idea of ever walking in any of those rooms again. I love TSM.! I could go on and on but I won't. One of the best books I have read is by Marianne Gilliam, called How Alcoholics Annoymous Failed Me.

Potato, I've noted to buy that book .
The subject tends to make my blood boil but it it's so important to understand
and cut through the double speak that goes on in AA and understand how its ghoulish side ticks .
When the meetings drove me nuts there'd say "yes , but are you going to enough meetings " !!
Alot of people often say , well if it's good for some it's good but I wonder if they couldn't have done it otherwise and for those they help look how many quit yet take with them very negative messages then fulfill the doom they were prescribed.
Overall it's not a healthy bottom line .

How was it you came to discover tsm such a long time ago when it was so little known about ?