Hi everyone

I'm not sure this is a constructive topic for this forum. But I don't want to disconnect from you all completely, in case there are other people with similar experiences that can share and exchange thoughts and support. I would love to hear anything about this

After several months of increasing success with the Sinclair Method, to the point where I was rarely drinking and almost never craving it, I suddenly decided to start drinking without it again. I don't know quite why. The whole experience seems quite different (less hungover especially) as does my normal day-to-day mood... this may be due to a change in circumstances, particularly a new job which I'm really enjoying and am very involved with. But already the 'buzz' has definitely returned, hence drinking is a 'glittering' prospect once again, more exciting etc. I have not felt too down about this but worry that a return to my old desperation is inevitable.

I would say I have had about half a dozen drinking sessions in the past few weeks without NAL.

What am I doing? Am I crazy? Does anyone have anything to say that might tip the balance of my decisions at this point in time? TSM works, I know that from experience. So I would love to hear from anyone who has done a similar thing or has an opinion on this. Even if it's harsh.

My thanks to you all

I am glad you posted. I believe that this issue -- inadequately addressed in the book -- is probably very common for people who have regained control of their drinking though TSM. A few have tried it and the short story is that all of us quickly headed back down a path to alcoholic drinking, as is accurately described in the book. Here is how I responded to another self-described "cured" TSM member after he got wasted over the Holidays and recounted his experience.

Hey Crown, good to hear from you my friend.

I could relate to almost all of what you experienced but my journey has been somewhat different. A few months ago I was convinced I was pretty much "cured." I was drinking regularly but within healthy levels. I went probably a year without a single hangover day whereas when I started TSM I typically had two days a week nullified, sick on the coach. My other problem -- blacking out conversations and parts of evenings -- was ancient history.

A few months ago, I found myself in a position of drinking wine socially a few times without the pill and seemingly without consequence. The only consequence appeared to be a return of the "warm glow" feeling that a couple of glasses of wine gives us and I liked it. I basically drank for several weeks like a "normal person" without consequence. Then after a month or so I noticed that I was drinking way over healthy levels as I continued to track my consumption daily. Rather than the bender you had, I was drinking wine and beer only, but was up to 7 or eight on each drinking occasion. No hangover days and no blackouts, but a dangerous path none-the-less. As of the holidays I was back up to about to about 30 units per week. Still a fraction from my drunk days but dangerous and getting worse...

I went to Seattle for Christmas to visit my family for five days and drank daily from cocktail hour to bedtime. Wine only. So for five days I was having a lot: about 6 or 7 a night, five straight nights. A mere pittance compared to pre-TSM but clearly unhealthy. (I should note that pre-TSM I would have had more like 10-15 units a night for several days during a typical holiday binge. And I would have been drinking liquor, not wine.) When I got back to Minneapolis and stopped drinking, I had a headache on day 2 that would not quit. I checked my blood pressure and it was 207/135. I called a doctor friend and she directed me to the ER where they immediately hooked me up to a morphine drip to drop my BP. They also gave me a cat scan which came back normal. But evidently, my withdrawal symptoms from stopping after the five-day binge pushed my BP up to lethal levels. (If you google 207/135 BP, you are in "hypertensive crisis" and are directed to call an ambulance to prevent stroke, heart attack, etc.) A follow-up with my doctor led to doubling my BP dosage and it has been fine ever since.

After the ER (and bill for $3,000, using up my entire deductible) I took a week off and didn't miss the drinking at all. In the past I would have gone one or two days and long to drink. So I was also convinced that "re-wiring" had occurred, even after several weeks of drinking without naltrexone. When I returned to drinking, I did so using TSM and am back to safe levels.

Moral of the story: Both of our experiences -- together with some other stories of "cured" members -- tell me that "cure" is not the correct word. Cured entails being a normal, non-addictive drinker. That may apply to Bob and maybe one or two others, but I do not believe it applies to many people. All of us, I believe, are still fully capable of drinking at pre-TSM levels in short order without naltrexone. I also believe that almost all of us, even once "cured", will miss the warm glow of drinking without naltrexone, some more than others. But when I say "miss", almost all of us, after being re-wired by TSM, will be able to do a simple cost-benefit analysis and rationally decide that returning to life as a drunk is insane, as you and I have done. We will then be able to dismiss the notion of non-TSM drinking fairly easily thanks to naltrexone. For these reasons, I do not like the term "cured". It is inaccurate and it sets people up for falsely high expectations, IMO. The vast majority of us -- dare I say 80%? -- can expect to regain control of our drinking and a life of sanity if we try TSM. But "cured"... I think not.

So glad you are doing so well! Like you, my life has been saved by TSM. It is SO much better living a daily life without the cloud of alcohol poisoning.

My best,

Nick

Thank you both for posting about this topic -- in my opinion, it is critical to this entire discussion. I am particularly struck by the possibility of having this happen to me given the strong side-effects I have from nal. At least in week 2 of taking nal, drinking wine is no fun and it used to be a great (well, sort of, at least for those first 2-3 glasses).

Reading these posts tells me that I need to be vigilant because it may be easier to be "cured" than to say that way permanently. The siren song of alcohol is very seductive, and it is not going to stop just because we feel like we are in control.

I went through a period of drinking without Nal a few months ago, probably because I missed "the glow" you guys described. The glow came back, but so did the arrhythmia, the missed days and the relationship problems. It shows how addictive this drug is, and what a two-edged sword TSM can be. I think many of us, after being on the program for a while, are hit with a classic approach/avoidance conflict: we know overdrinking is not good for us, but so many fun, hazy memories are connected with it that we're drawn back toward excess. TSM takes care of the pharmacological aspect, but the habitual and emotional parts take much longer. For me, getting back into the hobbies I had abandoned for alcohol has helped a lot, and I've learned that when I have the urge to drink, if I can wait it out for a half hour or so, it goes away. Whatever works.

Good topic as all of us may be tempted to do this once TSM helps us regain control. I am so happy that Nick, Firebird and Crown returned to this forum to post on that subject. Thanks Gweneth to you too for returning to the forum on this topic.

I try to remember that this is a very addictive drug. Afterall, I was in Al-Anon for 30 years and still started drinking after 30 years of practicing the program. I really thought it wouldn't be a problem for me to have a half of a glass of wine every night. Well, I thought wrong. My half a glass from 10 years ago turned into nearly 2 bottles of wine a night when I started TSM. I remember about three years ago having lunch with an AA friend and revealing to her that I thought I had a problem with alcohol as some nights I was consuming close to a bottle of wine. She agreed with me, but that didn't stop me. I kept drinking and three years later I had increased to nearly two bottles of wine a night. So, I say, we never ever drink without Nal. The drug alcohol is addictive period! I personally believe it is addictive for everyone and those who choose to drink regularly are just at different stages of the addiction. Afterall, all of us can remember when we did have control albeit we drank too much at times.

Welcome back Gweneth. Hope you stick around for awhile and really hope that you choose to start taking Nal again.

Gwyneth - Sorry I misspelled your name. Got it right now.

I love TSM. There have been a few time I have been tempted to drink withou Nal as I can't get, excuse me, F'in drunk. But I realize I don't want to an I am glad I still get to enjoy a little bit. Maybe sad, I don't know.
Don't drink without Nal, tell Charlie Sheen.

Drink without Nal? LOL me not good...dont do it..I am with Nick cured not a good word control is

I will echo Nick's experience.

I'd gone quite literally months without consuming any alcohol. This last summer I went to Mexico with my wife and for what ever reason, I decided to drink AL without taking Nal. Nal has always made me REALLY sleepy after taking it and I get god-awful hangovers while taking it. Within days, my consumption shot up to 7-8 units a night and as high as 15.

When I returned, I continued this pattern until one day I regained some sense and started taking Nal again. The control does come back quicker than it did the first time around, but it did take some time.

Nick is very correct. Nal will remove the craving and give one control. However, without Nal, this control will be fleeting.

Q

Thank you all for responding.

I am really worried about my drinking again. I do believe that it is as Dr Eskapa describes it and that it's dangerously pleasurable to begin drinking without NAL after doing TSM for some time. I feel like I'm right back where I started already, except without the horrible desperation of wanting to stop, because the 'warm glow' that people describe is still so strong. Plus the hangovers are not as bad off NAL (although any hangover is still pretty damn awful).

I want to begin TSM again but I also REALLY want to want not to drink at all. The irony of having to commit to continuing to drink (albeit with NAL) in order to gain control again is so exhausting and dispiriting, but at the same time I know that's cop-out because I'm drinking already!! I'm just OVER thinking about it all and going around in circles. Can't believe I'm already back here when I was doing so well and barely craving alcohol at all.

I think I will read the TSM book again, and maybe it will inspire me to get started again (or maybe it will just frustrate me with its perfect case studies and how easy it all looks)... grrrr! whinge whinge! Don't know why I'm even arguing with myself about this, I mean I KNOW from experience that TSM is the only thing that's ever really worked for me so far. So why the debating society in my head, as those AA folks might say?!?

Anyway I'm feeling a bit unsupported by my partner at the moment, but that's a subject to post in a different thread, so I think I will go and do just that.

Don't drink without your NAL people!!! It is really hard to get back on track. But when I think of the alternative, I know it just has to be done. I'm hungover right now, but I think I'll drink tonight just so I can get started on this thing again. If I wait until I'm not hungover, the appeal of that warm glow is just way too strong and instinctive.