I have to respectfully disagree 1-4, soberrecovery has banned several of us for even mentioning tSM, and AA escorted Bob out of a meeting for talking about it. This guy was given free reign to question, as we all have. He was a snotty prick who was here to upset people, and he was still given the benefit of the doubt. He was not banned or kicked out of here, he left when confronted by Eskapa and Sinclair's studies. He had the right to question, I didn't mind that, he even had the right to condescend and insult, but the rest of us had the right to call him out, and he didn't like that. I knew he was a TROLL from the first post I saw. Notice he never tracked his numbers or talked about his TSM experience? He just constantly showed off his scientific skills and lack of human skills (in the weekly progress section) were he knew there was more traffic than is the general discussion thread or sinclair questions thread. This was a classic TROLL!! nothing more. he came to piss on everybody's parade

With all respect 1- 4 consider this :
You're right we don't want this place to become like sober rec . Police state . There's no other way but to tolerate dissent . To James 's credit he mostly kept in his thread .
What I was really reacting to was things like " I don't do suport" And parting with : you take a pill it works or not what is there to discuss. Discussion unless science stuff = suport = AA
and AA = TSM ( how it started ) Even if we do do suport here it is part of the paradigm shift
( true , saint vincent )that NAL and TSM has substantially liberated people from the very need of recoveryism type of suport.
The kind of suport based on "associated life problems" so encouraged , prolonged obssessed over in AA is largely absent because alot of problems connected with alcohol abuse start vanishing . We don't need to ban the kind of suport we just need it less and less ( paradigm shift !) However we're humans like to chat and certainly need suport for the rollercoaster .
Wasn't James pooh pooing us on this ?
Another thing was provoking people to strong emotion and not having the grace to follow it through in the boxing ring . Suddenly he was tired .
And where has Goodman gone ?

I went back and reread all of James posts, and the replies etc to them, just in case I was mistaken. I don't believe I was.

He introduced himself and posted about his early experiences, and also noted some scepticism about the marketing/claims/hype around the method. Interestingly he met with almost universal approval on these points, ironically from many of the people now giving out about him. He was actively encouraged by many here (again including some of the above) to keep examining the science and keep asking questions. He largely, by the way, kept these posts to his own thread, and regularly posted 'disclaimers' - i.e. only read these if you want to debate the science etc

The most I can say is that he was a little 'blunt' or overly dogmatic in some of his criticisms. He certainly got that back in spades

I think he is wrong on several things he posted, but right on lots of others (which wouldn't be too different from any of us posting here I'd suggest).

I really don't want to encourage a flame war, so I'll end my contribution (at least for now, I really have no discipline in these matters ) by noting the following:

We're here because we have drinking problems (and all the ancillary difficulties that brings). Many of us have other difficulties (manias, depression, bipolar, PTSD - we're like a pyschiatric wet dream ). We all probably get a little hot under the collar at times and post in a way that is ambigious at best, and intemperate (to say the least!) at worst. I'd encourage people to go back and have a re-read of James thread and all the contributions (including our own individual ones) and think for a while on what any of us could/should have done differently.
If you're still exercised, then shoot the message. But lets not take aim at the messangers. Thats not cool, and it isn't the TSM way

That's quite fine . I certainly shall think long and hard on all this .
But I'd like to say just this for now . Over and above any acrimony I wish James the best
with tsm . He has left by his choice . I'd would be very pleased if tsm works for him .
I'd also be very pleased if he then expressed gratitude to it and its perpetrators .

Also for now . I'm very , very aware of the disorders that plague people here , bi polar,PTSD
for the former its in my family offline . This is all part of life , sadly .
But I was really referring to a) the problems that come through abuse of alcohol and b) its close flipside those from staying painfully abstinent . ie:desperately wanting a drink (thanks to alcohol deprivation effect) yet being dished out the AA way , and "take that its the only way"
These two are the kinds we can thank tsm for pruning back . As manty posts here show
suport they also show great gratitude when they see their addiction being rolled back .
Personally I've been here just as long as Bob . All this has been the biggest upset here since
the robert Rappelean days .
But let's wheel together . There are other posts where Yoga girl is proposing good thiings .
Let's turn the page on it .