From time to time I read people's posts about their desire to be "social drinkers".

I too wanted (want?) to be able to be a social drinker but what I've come to realize is that the mere desire to be a social drinker is the thought of a mind still addicted.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that someone who has gained control of their drinking thorugh TSM or Ameisen's protocol are necessarily still addicted. I'm saying that thinking about social drinking now and indeed hoping and longing for it, are your addiction talking.

If once and for all you are truly cured, you will be indifferent to alcohol. You won't care one way or the other and you certainly won't be thinking about how nice it would be to have one.

Just an observation...

I don't know about that. wanting to have a nice cold one at the ballgame with friends is not abnormal at all. it tastes good and goes well with certain foods. red wine with a steak at dinner? C'mon. just because you don't want to cut a huge part of the social fabric of western society out of your life, that doesn't make you an addict

It may be the addict in me talking, but I guess I’m with you on this Joe. When I talk to my AA recovering friends, they mention that their life has changed for the better, but they also talk about having eliminated the big highs along with the devastating lows. Maybe I’m being naive but I’d still like to be able to “tie one on” once in a great while for some special occasion and experience those silly, raucous moments with close friends. I’d just like to have that experience happen naturally a few times a year instead of having my subconscious addict brain try to achieve it every night. I too would like to be able to enjoy some good wine with dinner. I’d still like to be able to drink a six pack! I just want it to happen around the campfire when I’m on a fishing trip with my buddies and not when I’m supposed to be caring for my 4 year old son and have to work in the morning. Will this be possible? Maybe not, but that’s what I’m hoping for. If it doesn’t work out I hope I have the good sense to just go ahead and eliminate alcohol entirely, but I’m going to try this first.

You're expressing a basic fear that a lot of us have -- what if alcohol is what enables our sociability, our ability to 'let go' and get silly now and then? What if alcohol stimulates one's creativity (think of Ernest Hemingway at the typewriter with his glass of whiskey), and then the magic elixir is taken away? Does the quality of life go to hell?

On one hand, most drunks probably are not nearly as charming and entertaining as they think they are. So the loss may not be as great as one fears.

But in my case, being socially awkward and tongue-tied as a teenager was an important reason that I started drinking. Alcohol allowed me to be loose, jokey, glib, gleeful -- all the things that I wasn't, as my sober-sided self.

Everything is a compromise. To escape the addictive and health-damaging effects of alcohol, one may have to sacrifice the brighter side of it as well. This issue still bothers me, but I'm prepared to face it.

I definitely see where N101CS is coming from. Whe I found TSM last November I too wanted to quit but didn't. I think we all know that feeling. A liquid that is destroying us literally and we still want to hang on to the good times that come from it..and they do. I remember talking to my cousin who has like 10 years on me, he had quit drinking for 3 years, talking about quitting. He drank as much if not more than me. If he and I got together it would be a 60 pack and some crown royal. He said " drinking is the hardest thing you will ever quit" " he was like "your just like me, when times are good you drink to celebrate, when things are bad you have a drink. If you really think about it some of the best times in our lives were when we were drunk". But my cousin was one of those that booze interfered with nothing..not the job, wife no dwi's etc..he said when he turned 50 he worried about his health and was tired of his kid's seeing him party so he just quit..no meds no aa no nothing.

He quit for 6 years now has a few..control? who knows. Me, I was in hell on earth when I found TSM but was still hanging on to how can I never drink again..with friends vacation after work etc..lol I was lieterally dying and going f***ing crazy..but I didn't want to entirely quit. In the begining I was like hell yeah the magic pill..it will take away all the bad parts of being a drunk and make me control it. Thats not exactly what happened. TSM got me to the point of take it or leave it 95% of the time..like N101CS says indifferent. The other 5% for myself I beleive is the addict in me that wants to let loose and have those "good times" again and not have the bad. But booze doesn't work that way for me. Once I start I need more good times and more good times and we all know where that leads.

That being said that is where TSM has been a godsend to me. It puts the brakes on that 5% when I do drink and feel in the mood to go nuts..I don't go nuts. I have max 3-4 beers and thats it. The feeling to go crazy is still there, or have a cold one after fishing, every once in a blue moon and I don't fight it. I take my pill and drink and it keeps me in check. The other thing I think for myself, Nal has a very powerful affect on me when I take it because I don't much and hence don't don't nal much. Other thing for myself that is VERY VERY powerful is simply knowing I can drink if I choose to with no negative outcome..lol knock on wood. Currently I feel great not drinking and it's not a big deal at all. I go out with friends do all the same things I used to do etc and drink coke or something. I do this 95% of the time. The other 5% I drink 3-4 beers..lol..I actually get a buzz and stop...but it is rare for me to do that.

Do I consider myself a social drinker or a controlled drinker? NOPE not one bit. I consider my self a guy that has to take a pill if the urge to drink is there and I am most sure this will continue for the rest of my life...I am ok with it because as time keeps going by those desires to party it up are so far and few I could care less anymore. I know without this pill I would be a mess and quick. I will never chance that ever. I am ok with this level of addiction and the way I manage it..TSM. To people who don't know me I probably appear to be a social drinker..to the people I am close to I am sure it scares the S**T of them when I do drink. Me I know I am addicted to booze but TSM put it back to the begining and keeps it there. My self and weed for example I can take or leave. Everyone around me can be getting high having a blast laughing and such and I can be like nope not in the mood and not care. If I smoke once a year thats a lot...that to me is "social". I am not there 100% with booze and not sure if I ever will be.

I hope this hasn't sounded negative because that is not my intent. TSM I still maintain has cured me and allowed me to do a complete 180 with my life. Life is good again and booze plays very little role. I gave up on the AA abstinence sobriety thing a while ago and I am OK with booze and the role it plays in my life now..it's my definition of sober for me and I alone and I am 100% fine with it and no longer mindscrew myself about abstinence. I feel I am an alocoholic whatever that is and it is a very natural thing for an alcoholic to drink..BUT TSM put me back and keeps me back at the begining. LOL where I want to stay.

The thing I find almost funny to myself in an ironic sort of way is - I was hospitolized once for booze, I have puked more times than I can remember, made an ass out of myself, was sucidally depressed, had doctors tell me I wont see 50, slept in my own piss, destroyed the relationship with a fiance, blacked -out a million times and wanted to black-out, woke up with a bed covered in blood with no memory of how I got home and where and why I was bleeding, woke up on the front lawn being awoken by neighbors..and it goes on and on...AND I still Wanted to drink because of the good times or when booze goes hand in hand with something or sometime..LOL That to me is addiction.

Good Subject N101CS

.

Well put DOMD..lol I had an awsome Ruth Cris type steak last week and totally forgot how much I used to love that single malt scotch at the end to wash it all down like dessert..LOL Ice Tea replaced the single malt. But DAMN it's nice that TSM helps to forget those thoughts rationals and loves

Loved reading these posts & can't imagine the loss on so many levels of a glass of wine at dinner, beer @ the ballgame...etcetctetctetc

But Crown, you have come such a long way and I am so happy happy happy for you!! Alas, I have not had the extinction of craving NAL affords so many - yourself included apparently. So we shall see for the rest of us...BAC was HORRIBLE fopr me and several others...looking forward to trying Topamax. I still long for those days when I was so hopeful for success on TSM. My expectations, like yours, are so great - great to read your success and a bit sad at the same time...

Keep us posted on this, as we shall w/ you. Nite nite -
XO

Just to be clear I wasn't looking for a way to be able to drink either. I was looking for a way to quit, because I thought that was the only option for me, when I found TSM. If I had found an easier way to just totally quit, I would've. I've been sober with A.A. for a year (with about 3 slips) before and ate steak, went to ballgames etc. and had a great time, so I wasn't trying to imply that AL is a must in those situations, just saying that it is normal.

I guess it depends on whether you're talking about obsessing about AL or just enjoying it moderately. Maybe I'll quit totally when I get to the cure, I still don't know. I just hope to God I get there!

I dunno about you guys, but I had a GREAT time while I was drinking to excess, at least while I was younger. Then, I was drinking with a bunch of other people, laughing and doing stupid stuff, and generally raising hell. Cut to a few decades later, and now it's just me. Very few of my friends drink, and if they do, it's just one or two. Suddenly it wasn't so much fun any more, but I think one of the reasons I still drank too much was to try to recapture those bygone days, which by definition is impossible. Now I'm really looking forward to being like my buds - a couple of drinks and then go do something else.