[quote="Robert Rapplean"]For me, understanding the tenacity of the more severe forms of religious belief involves understanding memetics. What is it about intolerance that makes it more attractive to some of us than tolerance?

Now memetics is this cultural type collective virus thingy ? same shared ideas
(même in french ). If it's the same we like it , if it's different we are intolerant and attack it . the intolerance becomes structural it doesn't essentially matter what we're intolerant about but it is important to be intolerant of difference simply because it is different that is guiding .]

Yup, that's the concept. Memes are like viruses or bacteria in that they spread from person to person and feed and replicate off of our energy. Like viruses, they take advantage of weaknesses in our defenses. We have a huge weakness in resisting any idea that says that we're better than someone else. G4M, I think this couples with how you're talking about judging others. If we give in to the weakness and start believing others to be inferior, then we can expect them to do the same about us. We don't need much excuse to let that idea in. Heck, people will invent their own excuses if none come to mind.

Did you know that "evil" is derived from an ancient word that means "to be above"? I'm of the belief that money isn't the root of all evil - the quest for supremacy is. Money is just people's favorite way of keeping score.

I won't start a firestorm with all the beliefs and some misquotations stated thus far, but the religion I belong to considers alcoholism a disease or disorder and that one should take steps within our power to combat, as we all are are doing here, but that we are not automatically condemned by something we have no control over. Similar to other mental/physical maladies where we have no conscious choice.

BTW, Robert, the scripture you "quoted" actually reads "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." in the KJV. Many people don't even check to see what it actually states. It's not money in and of itself, but rather the love of it that leads to many injurious things.

Also, Robert, I do not know what source you use for your etymology, but Oxford use this definition:
O.E. yfel (Kentish evel) "bad, vicious," from P.Gmc. *ubilaz (cf. O.Saxon ubil, Goth. ubils), from PIE *upelo-, giving the word an original sense of "uppity, overreaching bounds" which slowly worsened. "In OE., as in all the other early Teut. langs., exc. Scandinavian, this word is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of disapproval, dislike or disparagement" [OED]. Evil was the word the Anglo-Saxons used where we would use bad, cruel, unskillful, defective (adj.), or harm, crime, misfortune, disease. The meaning "extreme moral wickedness" was in O.E., but did not become the main sense until 18c. Evil eye (L. oculus malus) was O.E. eage yfel.

I see no mention of "to be above", although, I suppose 'uppity' could be construed to be that meaning.

Further, there are those here who believe in predestination (which could cause an endless thread that will last for pages). One view is we are predestined by "God" to do or be what we are, no matter what. The other view is we have choice. Otherwise, why would "God" state plainly in Deuteronomy that he placed "the blessing and the malediction" before the Israelites; Life or Death; and He says "choose life"; His words not mine. We have choice if we are not weighed down by maladies such as blindness, diabetes or alcoholism. And even so we have a choice as to what we are to do when weighed down with these chance disorders. And we are doing that right now. Choosing to free ourselves from alcoholism's grasp and we will succeed.

And BTW, I agree with N101CS that although collective knowledge has increased through the millennia, native understanding and intelligence have remained the same.

Bob

That's good, Bob. "Love of money" is more analogous to "quest for supremacy" anyway.

Here's an extensive reference for the etymology of evil. Yup, uppity, as in Merriam-Webster's "putting on or marked by airs of superiority". Really, though, I don't like to use the word uppity because we tend to use it to refer to someone who thinks they're as good as we are when we're certain that they aren't.

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-Et ... dEvil.html

I'm not going to argue the free will thing because my perspective on it has nothing to do with religion.


And again, this runs into creationism vs. evolution, which is a topic I think I should avoid.

Nah. If we accept that intelligence is hereditary and that intelligence improves the odds of survival, then ignoring other factors there is no reason our intelligence shouldn't have improved. That said, I doubt it has improved much through recorded history - just not enough time.

Theories exist that Moses went up on Mt. Sinai and was actually ushered into a UFO - LOL! The theories of how life began, to why the wind blows & the rivers rise has been theorized and turned over to multiple gods & goddesses since 5,000+ BC.

I teach history. It is wonderful stuff. The Romans had HUGE orgies - thousands of people in the Colosseum watching the death fights from gladiator vs man vs lions - everyone in the stands was having half naked fun at the same time. TIMING IT!!! LOL To when the final blow came...literally & figuratively speaking!! Seriously. Lots of boys & men...but sure, the women were enjoying it too. Crazy/nasty/dirty stuff -

I forget my point! LOL - Intelligence: is inherent, if lucky, but not a given, and can be improved upon. Men, in general, do not follow the second as they believe they are inherently superior. LOL - I am kidding!!! It is all MC Escher math -

P.S. NO - I do not share what I know about Roman orgies w/ my students!! LOL - But they are definitely real and very shocking to even our present day thinking. The golden age of Greece and Rome was perverted beyond belief...or maybe hot and provacative is a better description! But we are TAME compared to what they did - altho they didn't rap about it - differences yet similarities. Very interesting stuff, I think.

While I appreciate where this comes from, I respectfully disagree. Learning to comprehend what is not seen is what spirituality is all about. . .and there are many evolved spiritual souls who understand more about the unobservable than science will ever be able to comprehend about the observable. In fact, the more science is able to observe and measure, the closer it comes to understanding - or at least acknowledging - the unobservable. The work by Lynne Taggart, The Field, The Intention Experiment) and the Messages from Water books by Masaru Emoto, are just a couple of examples, out of countless others, of scientific experiment resulting in observable, measurable forays into what has hitherto been considered spiritual (unobservable) realms.

While these are fascinating fields of study, no such studies are needed as 'proof' of God, Universal Spirit, Creator. . .whatever we choose to call the One. . .when one has subjectively experienced spiritual energy and events. In fact, the scientific seeking after 'proof' of Spirit's existence becomes a somewhat small and laughable thing, in comparison to the real deal.

RR, I love your explanation of money only being a way for us to keep score - so TRUE! I'd never seen it like that b/4.

G4M, the difference that I perceive between knowledge of the material world and understanding of the spiritual one is that knowledge is a factual thing and understanding is an experiential one. Facts are easy to pass on and re-confirm, but while experiences can lead to more experiences, they are very difficult to actually pass on clearly to other people. As such, spiritual understanding tends to get mutated over generations, and is easily lost.

The major turning point for factual knowledge was the advent of scientific method. Before that, science was all just a matter of opinion. That's where spiritual understanding is right now. I think that the greatest benefit to spiritual growth has been the advent of the international community. This gives an individual the ability to interact with and learn from thousands of people instead of the hundreds or dozens that we got to interact with a century ago.

Agreed, and agreed. I seems that experiential spiritual enlightenment is beginning to increase in direct proportion to the building of a larger, international spiritual base of sharing and understanding. It has been my sense (you're right - at this stage, mere 'opinion,') that there is a larger spiritual coming together and the beginnings of true cohesiveness over the past decade or so. Even factions that held rigid dogma are beginning to soften around the edges and allow for the possibility of other points of view. Promising stuff, considering the shape of our world overall - and how little positive effects 'religion' has ever had on the state of the nations.