Jim, the only thing that helped me find out if I could have an AF day was not to be around AL at all so that meant I did things out of the ordinary and believe me I felt like a fish out of water but I found out it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.

corkit

Jim -- here's a link to the thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=413

@nemo: We have a topic called "The Boxing Ring" for folks who want to call members here (including Roy Eskapa) "idiotic" or "stupid" Still, I'm sure you meant those comments in the most non-judgmental way.

So I guess one thing I could do besides music at night is become a night watchman or something.

That certainly would force me into a non AL environment. And I know I am at a point that I wouldn't sneak drinks on the job (I think). But yes, fish out of water I would be for a minute...

Lena, Nick, Cork, thanks so much (and everyone else)....I still end up drinking closer to 6 units to be be perfectly honest,...BUT I feel I have more control than ever,....There's just an itch that needs to be scratched, albeit not as bad as it used to be,...I think its not so bad but the habit beats teh crave these days,...and that being said,...I need to address the habit.

I've quit smoking (while actively drunk can you believe it?)

I'm in a very strange sort of melancholy place....but that being said, I feel its transitory...

Spring is coming and that allows me to focus on the garlic I planted last fall as well as the plethora of other plants I intend on growing....Nice problems to have (well,..i almost had my electricity shut off but I am going to make it by a hair as wedding season has begun and the big pay gigs on the weekend begin rolling in through October...Thank God as I was literally going to have to file bankruptcy...and as good as things are going with the Mrs., that would surely end if finances became a problem.....

Thank you more than you realize,...sometimes its this board that I go to for my strength to get through the day (no not suicidal).

Again, I feel if we were to have meetings in person, it could certainly help a bunch...I'm going to start a thread....Nalcoholics Anonymous, the big book...I do think there is something to learn and take from my 5 year AA experience....I just hope I don't end up getting too bruised in the boxing ring Take care my dear friends, Much Love to all, Jim

Lena, I called certain "advice" and "questions" "idiotic" and "stupid"-- not any members, so I'll stay out of the boxing ring, thank you very much.

What a relief. For a minute there, I thought you were being judgmental.

Zing!

Lena, you are so busy being offended by my comments that you ignore my point re: the thread title. You've argued that Eskapa's "drink as you normally would" should be taken ultra-literally:



But if someone asked you, "After taking NAL, should I drink until I black out as usual, or try not to?" How would you respond?

Taking Eskapa's "drink as you normally would" ultra-literally, the answer would be, "Yes. Drink until you black out as long as you take NAL." A response along the lines of, "you should always try to stop drinking before you black out" indicates what I and many on this forum believe: that some effort to reduce intake is beneficial to TSM and life in general.

I don't think ultra-literally is a word. "Literally" is an absolute. "Ultra" is a quantifying modifier. It contravenes standard usage to quantify an absolute.

BTW, I think "amused" would be a better description than "offended" at this point. And I'm getting bored so I think I'll move on.

Great job answering the question, Lena.

Ok, nemo and lena why not agree to disagree? Whatever works to get us free from this curse I think is the right way.


corkit

Actually, if a person is early on in TSM and extinction has not yet occurred, and that person typically drinks, say eight drinks and blackouts conversations when she/he does, then TSM and Sinclair would say that the person should continue to drink as she/he always have. So it's not idiotic to suggest continued drinking in this example to the point of blackout. Lena's concern -- and one I share -- is that a person should not be actively using restraint in their drinking before extinction has occurred. The key to extinction is being triggered to drink and then drinking through the trigger just as you always have except with the endorphins being blocked by naltrexone. Actively trying to restrain yourself and not drinking through cravings before extinction has occurred is counter-productive. That's what Sinclair and Eskapa would argue anyway and this is why the cover of Eskapa's book says, "Drink Your Way Sober Without Willpower, Abstinence or Discomfort."

To Lena and I, the issue of restraint only arises AFTER the underlying craving has been extinguished, not before. In my case, I was continuing to drink a lot out of "habit" five months into the method. When I applied restraint it was after extinction occurred and therefore required minimal effort.