I'm moving my time back even later....My first drink is at 1.30 AM and its a 1.5-2 units....

I was not freaking out but calmly set to have a drink although it was on my mind for teh last few hours (habit). I am now very slowly imbibing. I will go back to Nicks post and think of you all rooting for me and all of us. I think this will be a very sober night...>Plus I am doing my taxes (mostly done) and I have to link up pay checks and gig dates...tedious but necessary as I claim all gigs....

I've never felt so good in a long time....BEst, Jim

Ps Pre TSM, I can remember trying to get taxes done SMASHED. Waking up the next day with all kind of corrections. Might as well not have done them....

hmmm, this is a very interesting question when you think about it - the old habit versus craving argument, and specifically what the role of will-power is in all of this.

I think we can all conceive of someone in the 'early stages' who has virtually (or even literally) no choice but to drink, and someone who is non-alcoholic who has entirely a choice over whether or not to drink. In between we have a combination of habit and craving (I shall it a crabit TM ) - and I think that is key - it is almost never going to be either/or, it is going to be a combination of BOTH, until the person can get to the stage (if that is ever possible) of having zero cravings (even the word craving implies strength - so maybe there is a spectrum in this dimension too - craving>desire>wish>thought etc).

I wonder if we were to take Jims approach of trying for AF - if we can consistently manage success then we're predominantly in the habit domain, if we can't - well we shouldn't beat ourselves up - we are predominantly in the craving domain.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that maybe we need to try exercising that willpower as early as we can (but within limits - i.e. we're not white-knuckling) - while simultaneously being a lot more forgiving of ourselves if and when we don't 'succeed'. As the man once said - failure isn't getting knocked down, it is not wanting to get up again.

1-4 excellent post -- you're right, it probably is always a combination of habit/craving and is on a spectrum. Nemo, sorry to put you on the defensive -- I didn't mean to. But this case is not closed because you have touched on an entirely legitimate issue: at what point should a person use a little bit of willpower to cut back under TSM?

Jim: I'm glad you are inspired by my post but as Lena correctly says, you should have a choice about stopping. If you have to rely too much on motivation from this board, you might not yet be to the point where you are at choice but are still battling cravings. Don't beat yourself up if you are not yet at a point where you can stop.

We are all inquisitive people seeking the quickest way out of this mess. I suspect that so long as we follow the golden rule (nal one hour before drinking) that ultimately the vast majority of us will be all right.

1-4 the Road


CRABIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love it!

I will have to give you credit each time I use that one...

Thanks again for the support....and Nick, you may be right, I may have been wanting to be further along but I DEFINITELY am better than I was ever before. Even in my early succressful AA sobriety, I ran to meetings ljike they were a lifeboat which of course feeds right into their methodology..But with TSM I'm feeling stronger every day, and definitely drinking far less without teh 2000 pound weight on my shoulder freaking out at the very thought of alcohol, but alas, the thought of an AF day still eludes me ultimately, And even the thought of trying to make it to 1.30 AM seems impossible today. So I will give myself a break and just be.. today, but I will work out that's for sure.....Best, Jim

Hey JC -- If you go through the posts of those who feel cured, you'll see that for some, the thought of an AF day seems far away and then suddenly it drops out of the sky. I hope you get there. You've been so supportive of others here.

It really helps sometimes to get back to basics and flip through Eskapa's book, and to review posts by those who've been doing this a long time. Sometimes misinformation creeps onto this board and grows apocryphal with the telling. Other times, the test of our common experience shows that a few things in Eskapa's book (side effects and length of treatment come to mind) stand to be revised in future editions.

All the signs point to----------> You're on your way. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

I KNEW some posts on this thread, and on the "AF day" thread, had a ring of deja vu.

Last May, a newbie started posting about how many of us seemed to be viewing naltrexone as a "magic pill" to ingest and continue our destructive drinking habits with abandon. Those posts prompted some spirited dialogue. I looked for them just now, because I could not shake the uncanny similarity I recalled to the present back-and-forth. Reading through the earlier thread, I was struck with how that thread was a metaphor for the evolution of our common experience in the past year. I invite you to read the thread. For the vets, read and remember. For all others, enjoy the history lesson.

BTW, I miss Goin4More. The last I heard was a quick pm quite a while ago saying she was great but very busy and would be back soon



viewtopic.php?f=9&t=413

Thanks Lena,...Very sweet of you,....

I will try and go through the history and see if I can find the thread you speak of....

I see my drug dealer I mean shrink Thursday with
"the Power of the Pad", and may try and ask to increase my dosage...mind you not really take 100 mgs but say that I'd like to up it...that way I could get 60 pills which could get me well into my eighth month and I may not need to use her but one every couple months if I'm less on my drinking or close to cured by then.

I hate the the idea of managing this...but again, I have to reward my progress,...Rome wasn't built in a day,...it took me a minute to get backed into this corner and I am no longer in the corner but I'm coming out swinging and winning......

And the motivation provided by the board does help as this is our meeting. That's the one thing AA does have on us,...a very organized system of a fellowship. Even if you don't agree with one word of the philosophy,...at least they get to share face to face...>The best we have is the forum and I love it,..but can you imagine if there meetings where one could go and do what we do on these boards?

I for one think it would help...Can I bump the convention thread again? I guess it may yet still be a bit too soon,... My best, Jim

Judging from the rancorous debate on the topic and the success stories on the forum, I guess we all agree that answer is "it depends." Some have found success exercising zero willpower, like the lab rats, and others have succeeded through combining TSM with some efforts to reduce intake.

That said, I've seen some pretty idiotic questions on the board re: this question. For instance, a guy looking to start TSM who asks, "After taking NAL, should I drink until I black out as usual, or try not to?" Taking Eskapa's "drink as you normally would" ultra-literally, the answer would be, "Yes! Drink until you black out as long as you take NAL!" Obviously, though, this is stupid advice. TSM or no TSM, "try to stop drinking before you black out" is ALWAYS good advice.

But Nemo,

You knew that asking an alkie not to drink is like asking a plant not to grow with lots of water and sunshine...Its what we do naturally...its what we do,...its,,......what....we ....doooooooo

That being said. I have had 2 drinks and I am trying to think clearly and exercise what I feel is a new strength....WILLPOWER...however, its not a natural feeling...

Its been 1 hour since my last drink and I will have another....this I know...But,..I will try and stop there...and again 3-4 drinks is nothing comparatively....

I have one thing going in my favor tonight, ....I am very tired. I will pass out after my next drink and not from drunkenness...

Best, Jim

Jim, my friend, I'm not saying don't drink!!! I believe in TSM.

All I'm saying: It's always a good idea to try to stop (i.e. exercise some will power) before blacking out.