I would have preferred if TSM would have worked for me. You don't need to take Nal when you do not drink, and that way if you are by yourself AF you don't take the drug.
Baclofen in comparison to TSM is a substitute and not a cure. Just like Methadone is a substitute to Heroin. And yes Baclofen is a psychoactive drug!

If TSM is not working, and there are no alternatives, then any port in a storm!
My only alternative at this point is that I will keep on drinking myself to death. Each year my units will increase, and my life expectation will probably not exceed 50. I do consider Baclofen a very valid alternative to alcohol for myself!

Springer - you pissed me off here. Your arrogance is unbelievable. You declared "victory"...Great! We were all happy for you! And then you dip in & out of here on various whims, making grandioise statements like you are the messiah of the TSM...

How dare you. Back off - go away even. In my own personal opinion your conceit is ridiculous. Altho I am glad you have had success with TSM, many of us have not. For you to to make comments on here in any way shape or form that are negative...is a no-no. (we are like "speed freaks of the 60s"..."remember your goal", etc??) Gee thanks!! Who died and made you our parent?

I am so totally offended...and it is not what we are here for, which is support. From you, I have only felt a one-upmanship in your process w/ this method...a need for glory in some way. Sorry - if it's just me, so be it. Again, you come on here once in a blue moon and make what I consider patronizing, grandiose and arrogant statements that I find personally offensive.

Gee - if only I could've ended that one with a particularly crisp, "F U " - would've been sweet.

Springer - I suggest YOU go back and read some earlier posts regarding the somewhat DESPERATE situation some of us find ourselves in. We are grasping at straws in the name of hope...BAC may be that way out. F U for being so arrogant and judgemental - I am still just AGHAST at your callous comments.

PLease - try and redeem yourself.

I just think that for whomever TSM is not working, Baclofen is better than the alternative (long and painful death).

From the resonance on this board to Baclofen, I see a lot of people actually have not had the success they were hoping for on Nal. There are at least 12% of people (judging from the amount of people it did not work on this board, probably a lot more) that can not benefit from TSM.

a few information written in Ameisen book :

Every 4th death in the United States is related to alcohol, tabacco or illegal drugs. (Would you really want to deny a probably working drug to every 4th dieing person in America?)

History has shown that especially new medicaments might not be save.
Vioxx killed 27.785 people between 1999 until 2004 when it was withdrawn from the market. Baclofen is not new - it was introduced to the market in the 1920s and has a long safe history.
Naltrexone can be liver toxic, in comparison Baclofen has been tested in studies with liver Cirrhosis patients with excellent success.

Certain new Anti Craving medicines have fatal side effects. Viabatrin is toxic for the eyes and causes in 30-60% of all patients irreversible damage on field of vision.

Having Baclofen as a tool to fight addiction who could not find success with TSM (success with TSM would be preferable), is needed. Discriminating the relief of alcoholimn symptoms by Baclofen is like the people that told you that Nal is not going to help you. What did you say? <I thought so.>

Interesting fact about Baclofen is, that it is also very successfull in the Threatment of cocaine, heroine, amphetamine and nicotine withdrawal. As well as having positive effects on eating disorders and shopping addiction ("not material addictions")

You can probably not understand the problems of the people here anymore. You declared victory to your daemon. Just sad to see that you became one of the ignorant people that let us post our information here, and not talk to friends about our problems. If you have nothing positive to say please refrain from posting!

well, maybe I was a little harsh but...

Seems to me the only things offensive being said here is within the last few posts in this thread.

I think most would consider SR a bit of a sage. If you go back and read how SR writes, I think you'll find he has always been very matter of fact -- not arrogant. I highly doubt he intended to offend anyone.

Those of us who have seen success with TSM have our stories of how we got here and the the things we experienced getting here. Some might identify with them, some might not.

Over time, anyone who sees success with TSM is going to come to these boards less and less. I certainly do. It isn't because I don't like coming here, it's just that AL doesn't consume me any longer, so I just don't need this support system. I come here, when I think about it and have time, because I want to see others see the success I have seen. I'm sure SR comes here for the same reasons.

Q

I can understand that houtx is getting angry about people not actively supporting him.

I just watched an interview with Ameisen with a doctor next to him, explaining his view of things. This doctor was so absolutely arrogant, was afraid to use Baclofen in the right high dose and was complaining that it did not bring the results.

I wish TSM would have worked out for me - but it did not - I can say that clearly after 8 months.
Baclofen has brought incredible success to me so far. I can not remember the last time I was the last time sober for 15 consequitive days in a row!

It is even more powerful than Naltrexone. TSM achieved a reduction in units taken in - to a safe level - which is a good approach. Baclofen replaces the need for taking alcohol at all.
It is a total indifference to alcohol. I can not understand at all why people drink! - Funny - and that after 3 weeks on Baclofen!

My craving is gone. You can offer me a drink of your best whiskey or Bordeaux wine and I will decline and not think of it anymore.
I am glad that TSM worked for you - for whom TSM did not work out, Baclofen might be the solution.

Baclofen has focused my goal in total abstinence - if you can consider stopping totally with alcohol without the "I want to drink normal" - then you are really indifferent to alcohol.
Alone the "I want to drink normal" - "I can not imagine a life without alcohol" is a measure for addiction. It was the case for me on smoking. My goal was never to smoke a bit - when I stopped it, I realized that it is nothing that is needed. It is the same with alcohol.

As long as you can not imagine living without drinking you are not cured - just drinking less damaging.

In general I doubt there is a real cure for alcoholismn. Just damage control. If we can save more people why not do it?

I have decided to post in the future to MWO, as it makes much more sense to post there - more people and I am not anymore on TSM. Lately have been disappointed by the lack of posts at TSM.
If you are interested in following my process using Baclofen use the link below

http://www.mywayout.org/community/f9/craving-nal-start-23-apr-2009-bac-start-08-jan-2010-a-39824.html

See you there!

Craving: Sorry that TSM did not work for you but I am thrilled that Baclofen is! I completely agree that if TSM does not work, try other methods. And clearly, TSM does not work for everybody.

I will say this: For thirty years I could not imagine a happy life without alcohol. Now, I find it hard to believe that I ever thought like this and the thought of life with little or no alcohol is very appealing to me. I could take it or leave it. That fact is why I now am not afraid to use the word "cured", which I do think is legitimate.

Oh - let me just say a few things here and then get on with it. No one is making a big deal about my temper tantrum, which is good. Sometimes I do get pissed off. And yes, Springer pissed me off. No need to explain futher, I think I was pretty clear as to why. I understand the not coming on here very often if you have no reason to - but he just seems to be a bit arrogant on occasion.

A few too many cliches that I just get annoyed with on ocassion...like the other night. Springer is a fine guy, certainly, and I am happy for him. Perhaps he didn't mean to come across that way, but I felt like he was being a bit arrogant & superior.

Sometimes I voice my irritation. Doesn't mean I hate him forever or anything..altho would welcome any further feedback. We on this thread were talking about BAC & the success you, craving, & LoOP have seen...

That's all. In spite of the negative diversion, I am still really REALLY going to suggest that to my DR at my next appt. Not to be a speed freak fom the 60s or anything!! LOL