Eskapa says the success rate for TSM is around 78%. But at what point did he arrive to the conclusion that its not working for the other 22%?

6 months? (he says that TSM typically begins to work 4-6 months). 9 months? A year? 3 years? (He says that TSM continues to work for up to 3 years).

Is it possible that your brother's decrease in drinking and AF days were due to anything other than TSM working? A placebo effect? I doubt it.

It sounds to me like your brother is going through the same type of stuff a lot of us are going through here with the spikes and the backsliding. I'd say hang tough

And get him on here if you can

Hi Loop,

Actually I wasnt thinking of my brother so much with this question, but in general for TSM. I'm pretty sure that TSM is working for my bro since he did experience a slight reduction in units and a few AF days (very few), but more noticeably a slowdown (in units per hour). I'm thinking more of Virgil who has passed 9 months I believe and whom is staying on with TSM till the end of the year. Also of the other 22% whom Eskapa says it doesnt work. What was Eskapas cut-off point in reaching that figure? Especially in light of his other statements that TSM takes 4-6 months to work and should continue to work for up to 3 years.

Hi mimir,

You have started an interesting thread. In some respects, asking your question is a bit like asking 'how long's a piece of string?' (and I mean that with respect). But, from my point-of-view, there has to come a point when you have to say 'enough is enough'. Of course, some might say 'but what happens if you stop now and success is just around the corner?'. The trouble with saying that is that I could keep saying that for the next few years. And, during that time, my liver is not going to like it.

I think that 40 weeks is long enough to give TSM a chance, even allowing for the fact that some of that time I have been regularly taking a benzo. The harsh reality is that I have not seen any meaningful reduction in my alcohol intake whatsoever. So, where is the evidence that TSM is helping me? The proof of the pudding is in the eating (or should that be 'drinking'?).

These are my thoughts on the matter. Others will no doubt see things differently. I think it's a question of weighing up the facts and going from there.

All the best.

V.

Virgil, I understand what you are saying and you know we are sort of in the same boat. You gave up the benzo's six weeks ago, if I remeber correctly. What if at that point in time you were actually starting over. With the number of units you consume do you think that it would possibly take a minimal if three month's from that point? Like starting over? Just a thought. Bob is the only one on Benzo's who has really managed a total cure so far. I too am concerned with my liver continuing much longer with tsm. You know I hope for the very best for you but this thought has crossed my mind. M

Hi LaBear,

Good to hear from you.

I gave up the regular benzo two calendar months ago - at the beginning of October. I asked Dr Eskapa at the time if that meant that I was effectively starting TSM afresh and his view was to the contrary. However, to play safe, that's why I'm going to continue with TSM until (at least) the end of the year. I say 'at least' because, if changes do occur, then I'm more than happy to stay with TSM. However, if there are no changes in my alcohol consumption, then I will make the switch to an alternative method.

Just to expand on this a little further. By the end of the year, I will have been off a (regular) benzo for three months. Even if I had started afresh at the beginning of October, three months is long enough to see some change in alcohol intake. I wouldn't expect to be cured in that time but I would fully expect to see some positive signs. To put a figure on it, I would consider a 20% reduction to be significant.

All the best.

V.

This is a good thread for me, too. I, also, am not seeing a meaningful reduction in my drinking and associated side effects, although I have diligently taken NAL for seventeen weeks.

I'm not giving up, yet, though. My liver is fine so far and because I am a very long term, heavy drinker I am willing to give this approach a try for at least a year (end of June 2010).

I just hope my loved one hangs in here with me. He is so exasperated with me, I fear I'll lose him if I don't show some progress.

Sante

Virgil, you are making a lot of sense here and I agree with our opinion. After reading and reading and pm'ing a few it seems to me there are quite a few of us that are becoming a bit anxious about not seeing real results. Please keep us posted as I know you do a lot of research and I so trust your judgement. I may be forced to find an alternate method shortly also.

Hi LaBear,

Many thanks for the feedback.

It is interesting what you say about other people being anxious as a result of not seeing positive results. I'm also interested to see that you "may be forced to find an alternate method shortly also". You are correct in saying that I do a lot of research and I may just be in luck with my search for a baclofen practitioner. Yesterday morning, I was feeling very despondent but things picked up yesterday afternoon. I may be onto something but, as ever, I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch.

Mimir, with reference to your original question "Eskapa says the success rate for TSM is around 78%. But at what point did he arrive to the conclusion that its not working for the other 22%?", have you considered putting this question directly to Dr Eskapa? I suggest you e-mail him via this forum. As Dr Eskapa made the statement about the TSM success rate, it would make a lot of sense to ask him at what point did he arrive at the conclusion that it's not working for the remaining 22%.

V.

Hi Virgil,

Yes, good point, I will send an email to Eskapa. I had thought that it may have been in the book (havent read it), but I guess if it was, someone would have mentioned it by now. Does anyone have his email?


That would really make my day if you were to find something worthy or showing promise. Please keep us informed.