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 Post subject: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:38 pm 
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I have not been able to log on so much during the past few days- I am quite behind with a lot of stuff I should have been doing lately but will try to get on more often:)

I have noticed the last few days/week that some people are getting despondent- there seem to be three different reasons-

a) Drinking has gone up during the second/third weeks to pre-Sinclair or above pre-Sinclair levels.

Dr. Eskapa does explain in his book that this is to be expected, so no worries there.

b) That although the method is working, as in drink levels/cravings are reduced people just 'don't feel right', feeling low, bad moods, things seem dull etc. Even Springer reported this in his last post and I thought sounded quite fed up.

c) That in spite of following the method correctly people have no reduction in cravings/drink levels and feel completely depressed that it may not work for them.

Assuming up till now, I am probably one who among our group would consider a success (with my cravings and units reducing just as well as can be expected using the method) I would like to voice the following opinions-

(PLEASE REMEMBER-ONLY MY OPINIONS!!)

Robert noted and I also remember reading or hearing that Dr Sinclair found that 'by the third week most people were able to take a weekend off'.

My own experience was that I did not have a day of until day 28. I did not manage 2 consecutive days until the 4th and 5th days of week 6. If I had taken note of the 3rd week thing I would have been downhearted, maybe worried it wouldn't work for me, etc. but I did not take notice thankfully- everyone is different- just because our progress is not exactly as described in the book, we should not worry.
Maybe you will get days off in week 5 maybe they won't come till week 8- While I know this is not a cure that is based on faith, nothing will work if we worry about it 24/7.

We really have to relax a bit- just concentrate on that red circle on the calender and THEN we evaluate if it has worked. By comparing progress and numbers, I honestly think we are making things worse for each other.

Some of us took decades to get addicted- some only months, some of us drank every day, some went on a binge once a month- some of us drank 100 units a week some 40, etc, etc, we are all COMPLETELY different!

I do not doubt that Dr Sinclair's patients were ready for time off drink and Nal after 3 weeks- but they were in a very different situation. They were working with a doctor they trusted who told them to take a pill before drinking and come back in 2 weeks. There was nothing to research, no internet to read a million different opinions, just a pill to take and forget about it.
Most of us have here had to battle to find a doctor, lied to him or her, don't know if our livers are healthy enough to take this, had to glean what we can of the net, or order of an online company and then worry if we might have been sent $100 sugar pills. Some of us only have each other here on the board for support- no wonder we are confused, doubtful and scared.

On top of that, the founder/first members here, RV, Springer and Lena, all kind of just disappeared- yes, they had/have personal reasons, but it does not boost morale.

I think we have to stop thinking so much- just follow the program as best we can and wait for the date to decide if it worked or not.

I too, have felt a bit low this week, and now I see another problem on the horizon- when I have a day or two alcohol free, then go back o the Nal I am feeling the nausea when I take the pill again. Now, that does not sound bad, but it is not really nausea as such, it is a spaced , sick feeling, which makes me feel quite out of control. I don't know if I can continue to take a pill every few days that will make me feel that way- my plan is to reduce the dose after I have had an Alcohol free day- so my week could look something like this:

Monday- 50mg- 5 drinks
Tuesday- 0 mg- 0 drinks
Wednesday- 25mg- 3 drinks
Thursday- 50mg- 4 drinks
Friday- 0mg- 0 drinks
Saturday 25mg- 4 drinks.......................etc, etc.

Now, I know people will disagree with this and say you must take 50mg for it to work- but it will not work for me long term if I feel the bad side effects everyday after I have a day off Nal. It will end up that I am forcing myself to drink so I don't have to have a day of Nal and later suffer the side effects. That would be rather perverse wouldn't it :shock:

What I want to say by all this is I think we really do have to be our own physicians- try to guage ourselves, as much as possible without just referring to what is going on with others, and if necessary make tweaks here and there for ourselves when we feel it is going wrong. While I feel Dr Sinclair was/is definitely on the right track, I do feel there need to be modifications to the method, perhaps we have to be the ones to self-experiment or nobody will ever know for sure if this is a viable cure or not.

In the worst case scenario, that by the time the red circle comes up, and we are drinking the same as pre-Sinclair, we do not have to panic. There is lots of new information emerging concerning Baclofen, and Ocean is having good success with a combination of Nal/ Baclofen- that is already my plan B if things don't work out.

Lets lighten up a bit about it- for the first time in years we are feeling some hope- I don't know if the method 'as is' will work long-term for many of us. (I think a combination of the problems we are now encountering are part of the reason it is so difficult to find long term Sinclairists). I think we have to use it as a stepping stone to find out what will work for each of us as individuals. At least we have the support and learning experiences of each other.

*Hugs*

(Please Remember - it is only my thoughts at this time- I don't know any more than anybody else).


(Also, the board has become quite confusing- lots of threads basically all on the same subject, I don't really know how we can rectify that- I just use the 'View New Posts' link on the top left, that way I see every post and have an idea of who said what (I hope!)).


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 Post subject: Re: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Posts: 109
Thanks Marbella for being the keeper of the torch here! RV, Lena & Springer may be absent for a bit, but I have no doubt they are out there & will return soon. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

We can expect a few set-backs...just need to stay positive and hang in. Thanks so much for these words

_________________
w/ "Blind Faith"
Pre SM: 60 - 70 units/wk
wk 1: 50 - 60 units/wk
wks 2 - 5: about the same
wk 6: 2 AF days but basically the same
wk 7: 45 - 50 units
wk 8: 55 - 60 units
wk 9: underway :-/


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 Post subject: Re: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:10 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Sugar Hill, GA
houtx770 wrote:
Thanks Marbella for being the keeper of the torch here! RV, Lena & Springer may be absent for a bit, but I have no doubt they are out there & will return soon. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

We can expect a few set-backs...just need to stay positive and hang in. Thanks so much for these words


I am sorry guys. It is just that I have been swamped with work and travelling alot. I just got back from Mississippi yesterday and will drive to Indiana Monday and back again Tuesday night. Wednesday I will drive out to Ms again and back on Friday evening so I can make my daughters softball game. To top it off, my laptop has suffered from plant wash down and is being repaiered by HP. You all know how addicting these forums can be (right now Marbella who has more posts then me!) so I force myself to stay off of them when I am under the gun.

I am happy to be busy for as long as I am, I am employed. I know that many can relate to that. I updated my progress post.

Also, as we move along, our progress flatens out. That is normal for any evolution. It is simply mathmatical where Change/Time = Progress Rate. The longer you are in the SM, the more things seem to slow down. What you need to do is focus on the big picture. The Sinclair Method is a skydive. When you start the method, you are leaping out the door of the plane. You have a four to six month freefall. While in freefall, it is no time to be questioning whether the parachute is going to open.


Quote:
On a side note, I was truly a skydiver all the was through USPA Intructor and JM. For some stupid reason, I used to get stoned. I would freefall for 60 seconds doing RW (building formations) and the entire time my pot filled paranoid brain would be questioning everything. Did I pack my chute right? Was my altimeter working? Was the spot correct? Was my life insurance paid? Jumping stoned was insane but i would do it again.

_________________
Declaring Victory since June 09.

50 mg /since Jan 13, 2009 << you do the math
Average AF days 6/wk
Average Drinking < 4 drinks/wk

I now count days on Nal, rather than drinking days.

Drinking to my Health


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 Post subject: Re: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:07 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Michigan
Hi Marbella!

You are so wonderful and have a great way of making peole feel comfortable. Thanks for all your efforts here, and your ability to look on the bright side, regardless of the ugliness you might see from our bad moods, etc. You always keep it together, and you are an inspiration to us all - keep up the good work! :D

Wow - I had too many beers....so sorry for blabbering, (is that really a word?) - thanks anyhow for your efforts to help us. We all need and appreciate you! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:07 am 
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Ah Springer You are back!!! We have missed you you know...I do hope everything pans out for you- you won't lose your job, how would they manage? Besides you can always come and work with me- I will need a part-timer to stack the shelves in the shop during the summer months. (Remember to bring your own Nal).


Well it's a gloomy old day here today- rainy, windy and cold to top it off, plus we have lost an hour's sleep thanks to changing over to Summer Time...but all is good!

No hangover, I have the nal in my pocket (car, and purse) and am of to get wet with the four legged ones!

I hope to have an AF day today- I want to lost a few pounds for the summer- not that I will be seeing much of the beach this year, due to working long hours.

It is strange, when I think I will go AF to lose weight, that makes me feel fine, but if I say 'go AF because I should' it kind of sets of negative vibes :)

Hope everyone has a great day- onwards and up!


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 Post subject: Re: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:10 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Sugar Hill, GA
Be happy to work for you but I am sure you crack a whip.

Tomorrow I go back on the road and will be gone until Saturday. Don't put flowers on my grave. I will rise again.

We changed our clocks weeks ago. I am still recovering from that. I love the spring but I like moving the clocks back. My idea would be to set the clock back an hour every night. Hell, maybe two or three hours. Could get a lot more done with a 28 hour day.

_________________
Declaring Victory since June 09.

50 mg /since Jan 13, 2009 << you do the math
Average AF days 6/wk
Average Drinking < 4 drinks/wk

I now count days on Nal, rather than drinking days.

Drinking to my Health


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 Post subject: Re: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:10 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Chicago, IL
Hi Marby - thanks for posting your thoughts, well put as usual...the despair on the site this week seems to have ended up on a good note as usual and the different discussions have been very interesting to read (this site has definitely become my guilty pleasure).

I understand your thinking about going to 25mg after being 'off' a few days, I was wondering the same thing myself. I think it's a good question to post to Dr. Eskapa, because you want to be careful that the opiod receptors will still be blocked at that level, and not accidently revert back before treatment is 'complete' (whenever that is...).


Last edited by happy4once on Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Oregon, USA
Marby,

Great post. Really summarized what many of us are going through.

The only thing I would caution against is altering The Sinclair Method, or more accurately recommending that we alter the method. Remember, their are YEARS of research behind this method and just over 70 clinical trials. There are less than 30 of us here who are actively posting our progress and none of us have even went the full 4-6 months needed to fully extinct our addiction. We are not in a position, at this point, to make an informed opinion about this method.

IMO, we need to stick with the formula without exception. Dr. Eskapa is here to answer questions and we now have a direct means to ask Dr. Sinclair questions -- we need to ask them these questions when issues come up. Others will surely have the same issues we have.

Q

_________________
Started TSM: February 2009 Cured: August 2009

Restart TSM: July 2012 (65 units/week)

Weekly Progress:
Units: 45, 41, 44, 53, 42, 45, 41, 42, 40, 48, 39, 27, 12, 30, 45, 35, 45, 50, 48, 50, 35, 46, 44, 56, 52, 45


Last edited by ~Q~ on Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Marby's Thoughts...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:02 pm 
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~Q~ wrote:
Marby,

Great post. Really summarized what many of us are going through.

The only thing I would caution against is altering The Sinclair Method, or more accurately recommending that we alter the method. Remember, their are YEARS of research behind this method and just over 70 clinical trials. There are less than 30 of us here who are actively posting our progress and none of us have even went the full 4-6 months needed to fully extinct our addiction. We are hardly even in a position, at this point, to make an informed opinion about this method.

IMO, we need to stick with the formula without exception. Dr. Eskapa is here to answer questions and we now have a direct means to ask Dr. Sinclair questions -- we need to ask them these questions when issues come up. Others will surely have the same issues we have.

Q


I didn't want to give the impression I recommend changing the dose- I really really do not, and I can only speak for myself, but if it is a choice between me lowering the dose or not taking it, I will try lowering it first.

I am horribly sensitive to medication- I can't even take an aspirin without being sick.
I sometimes get very bad hayfever, and the OTC meds make me high for days- everything works fine but I get all the side effects.

I will battle on- lowering the dose is not what I want to do, but I do think if anyone is struggling, to modify the method to help in that individual's struggle may not be the worse thing.

Today I took 25mgs, and could not even finish my second beer. I do generally manage 3- but I threw the second out and the third is in a bag outside which is where it will stay.

I wasn't going to post about this, because I feel I am a severe case as in sensitivity, and I don't want others to follow me thinking it is right when the same routine may not work for them- but I decided above anything else we have a duty to be honest in what we are doing, which is why I decided to post it.

I am not recommending this for anyone, but if there are certain aspects of the program that are making it difficult for you to follow, maybe a tweak here and there is better than completely dropping the whole thing, as I did back in October.


Don't worry guys, I will monitor myself very very carefully and if I have to go back to the full dose, I will do.


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