Thanks, Kris. Sorry if I seemed offended. I spent a long time on Wikipedia defending myself against "what could you possibly know without a doctorate?", so it's a bit of a sore point with me.

I have considerable understanding of the medical basis of the treatment, but I'll readily admit that I lack practical experience in its application. If the denizens of this community feel that six months is a more appropriate time to start second guessing the treatment, then I'm really in no position to disagree with you. I'm quite happy to find a group of people who are actually using the treatment so that I can learn these things from you.

Elfern, orally administered naltrexone has an LD50 ranging from 1.1g/kg in mice to 3g/kg in monkeys. The low end of that would put it at 165 grams for a typical 150lb person. Good thing that SM only requires 50 milligrams/day. This indicates a 3000-to-one ratio between effective and lethal doses. For aspirin, the ratio is about 400, so that makes naltrexone pretty darn safe.

Mostly I was referring to a case where someone thought that naltrexone protected them from the worst effects of alcohol and drank themselves to death. Never seen it happen on naltrexone, but a misunderstanding of how it works might result in that.

Robert
I appreciate your incites and your wisdom. I find my personal impressions and feelings tell me that you are a brilliant person. I look forward to your post and I do learn from what you contribute, I hope that you are learning from us on the board as well.
I am more fortunate in my journey that I have a partner that we are sharing our journey together. We have each other for support and are able to share with each other what we have learned and experienced.
I may not contribute as much as my SO G4M, after all she is the brains of the outfit, I just enjoy reading and learning from all the wonderful people on this message board. The trials and tribulations of the members here range from the highs of success to the lows of someones fears and self doubts. The success stories make me very happy and gives me hope, and the fears and self doubt stories makes me feel compassionate and concerned for my fellow human beings only wishing that I could help and give more encouragement in someway or the other.
Robert, you do that in your way, and it is appreciated as they say by the silent majority.
You don't have to defend yourself, some of the most brilliant scientist and inventors and people in general have had to teach themselves for they have gone where no one else has gone. Becoming a self made man is an accomplishment in itself!

Robert - thank you for your insight. Understanding that the treatment may not work should be something that anyone that starts this method should consider so they have a plan B if they get to the 4 or 6 month point and have not seen improvement...Dr. Eskapa did point out that the treatment does not work for everyone in one of his threads. That is not to say that if you are at the 2 month point and not seeing improvement that it will not work - it takes time. No one's hopes should be dashed, it's just reality, and this board should be about making this journey together from a factual as well as a supportive standpoint. This can be an incredibly frustrating process for people who, by nature of our addiction, are used to 'quick fixes'. Taking the pill alone is just part of the cure...time is also one of the ingrediants as well as patience.

There are a lot of readers on this board that may not post as often as others, and I hope this community remains open to all opinions and research. I feel we are very, very lucky to have actual doctors and researchers posting here, as well as some extremely kind people who offer heart-felt support whenever and whereever it's needed. I hope we can embrace both.

Also - for everyone's benefit...here is Robert's introduction page...I think he is the interviewer for the Sinclair podcast that brought word of this treatment to so many us (thank you, Robert):
http://www.thesinclairmethod.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=144

Hi Robert,

Again - I meant no offense, and truly do appreciate and benefit from your vast knowledge. It's quite impressive that you're willing to devote so much time to help when you don't even suffer from alcoholism. We need more people like you on our side, and I'm VERY glad you're here to support us!

It's just the terrifying thought that I might be in the minority of those for which TSM won't work...it can become so overwhelming at times. I hope for the best, and will remain positive, but denying the whole truth would be foolish too. Even if it doesn't help me, the fact that it can save so many is incredible, and I will defend it forever, regardless of my outcome.

Thanks again for your help!

Thank you, everyone for the enthusiastic welcome. I've spent so much time dealing with people who just plain don't believe that TSM could work, and I can't tell you how much of a relief it is to find a thriving community of people who are trying it. And, yes, I'm that guy who produced and performed the Intellectual Icebergs interview with Dr. Sinclair.

I do feel it important for me to say that I am not an enthusiast of the Sinclair Method. The flaw of over reliance on a single method is a lesson to be learned from AA, and I don't care to repeat their mistake. I'm really only interested in helping alcoholics, and I believe that spreading word of the Sinclair Method is by far the best way to do that. But part of that also means attempting to understand where the Sinclair Method won't help, understanding what makes it fail (so that such might be avoided), and understanding the alternatives. You can't be a good researcher without being a hard-core realist.

Kris, I really do understand that you need to believe that this will work for you. I'm completely open to the concept that extinction might have slow onset for a subgroup of alcoholics. Could you all please let me know if evidence to support that happens to appear? Specifically, if anyone shows absolutely no signs of reduced craving after two months, but does have a decrease in craving after six months, I'd REALLY like to know about it. That information will be valuable to people who try this in the future.

ditto to all of the above

Hey Robert!

Is that really a picture of you, with a bird on your head? It's a great photo, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

I'm glad that this "Frustrated" thread is here, because it's important for us to have a way to vent, and have the opportunity to be honest about how we feel without judgement.

The range of emotions I've felt over the past few weeks is hard to describe. I'm filled with excitement, fear, determination, and despair all at once, and sometimes I'm just 'OK'. I think the part of this program that allows us to "drink again" makes us giddy with joy at first, forgetting that there is still hard work ahead to make this tremendous change in our lives really happen. It's like stumbling into a pile of cash, winning the game, but then realizing it's just Monopoly money. Still, you're in the game and have a fighting chance, but it's not "real" yet. I pray each day that we will all succeed, but no matter what, I've found success in getting to know all of you - finding great people all across the planet who share a unique understanding of this misery has been SUCH a blessing to me! The timing is amazing, and might constitute 'Divine Intervention' for me. It's the same old 'everything happens for a reason' thing, and I am a believer in that.

Please keep the posts coming - this is SO much better than formal therapy! You guys are all great. Thanks for being here!

Hi Robert,
Glad to meet you. I have just gotten back on the forums and read through this entire thread and see that you have survived trial by fire. I almost feel as if you have relieved my post for I used to have all the controversial posts. Now to a simple serious point.

Eskapa rightly compares the Sinclair Method to a skydive. We, who have signed on, have departed the plane. We will be in freefall for four to six months. This is probably not the best time to question the qualifications of the parachute packer.

See you on the gound, one way or the other.

Let me point out that I am a "doctor". I was awarded an ScD in 2002. I have had contracts to conduct studies at such pretigious location as the CDC. They were not addiction realated studies but controlled studies, nevertheless. I have also had experience in the addiction treatment field. Having said that, we(or at least I) am not interested in being anyone's lab rat. My goal is the cessation of addiction. If you want to observe our progress that is fine. If you want to throw darts and make guesses at who survives, that is not fine. As I stated in my previous post, there is a degree of faith in this process and there is little return in questioning that faith. Get it?

This statement conflicts with the clinical trial results that Dr. Eskapa presents in his book: "The Cure for Alcoholism." On page 120 of his book, Dr. Eskapa presents an extinction curve, figure 9. This figure very clearly shows that at 8 weeks, drinking levels had dropped by about 50% from Pre-Sinclair Method drinking levels and continue to drop 4-6 months out. This figure also shows that a statistical plateau did not occur until about 200 days after begin of treatment.

Finally, Dr. Eskapa states multiple times throughout his book that pharmacological extinction via The Sinclair Method is a 3-4 process for "most people," and up to six months.

I'm not trying to be confrontational in anyway, but think it is very important that we are able to backup statements such as this with facts so as not to cause confusion.