Hey Everyone!!

I just under three weeks into the SM. I am getting frustrated. I have had one or two nights where I took the Nal and wanted nothing to drink...the first beer made me sick. One of those nights was this past Sunday. Then, last night, I followed the golden rule and ended up drinking myself into a blackout. I know this is supposed to be normal but I really am wondering if I should try to fight cravings a little more but then isn't that defeating the purpose...the more drinking I do the faster I will be cured? Not noticing a lot of change in drinking habits. The taste is a little different at first but after I get through the first 2 it is on again...drinking until bedtime. Please help me understand this...I getting frustrated...

SillyGrits-

I know you don't want to hear this but it is very very early days for you yet. It is still very early days for me- we cannot really expect this to start working until we are a few months in to the treatment.

I too had a few baddies during the second and third week. I think everyone here has.

In a previous post, Dr. Eskapa has said there is no harm in trying to exercise some willpower to cut down 'if you can.' As most of us have already done this time and time again without success we know it is not the answer long term.

Just keep at it! Do what Springer (?) said- take a calender, and draw a big red circle exactly six months after your starting date. Between then and now, just drink as you normally would after taking the nal (don't start throwing them down your neck thinking it will then work 'faster' either ) and see where you are at when you get to that circle.

It is easy to get despondant and depressed after a heavy night- read back through the threads, it seems to have happened to us all- and most of the times it happened to me I probably felt too down to post.

It will pass.

Hi, Sillygrits. As said, you're doing just fine. The secret ingredient behind the Sinclair Method is this: The more similar your drinking experiences on naltrexone are to the ones you had before you started, the more thorough the extinction will be. If you're used to drinking alone, then that's what your extinction should involve. If you're used to drinking in a smokey bar, then that's where you'll get the best results. I believe there is a case where some wealthy people sent their alcoholic kids to a resort where they underwent the Sinclair Method, and it worked fabulously until they went home. At that point, they were back in the environment in which they started drinking. Since they were only conditioned to not drink at the resort, they suffered a near immediate reversion.

I can, however, suggest a few things. Even if you're used to drinking alone you can still take the edge off of your cravings if you drink with a "wingman". The wingman's job is to watch your drinking, help you stop, and make sure you don't do something like driving. Give your wingman a "get out of hell free" card and give him instructions on how to tell when you've had too much.

Also, what dose are you taking? If you aren't taking a strong enough dose then you might not get any benefit at all.

As one final point, the Sinclair Method really doesn't work for everybody. Dr. Sinclair has identified genetic markers for a group of people for which the technique doesn't work. Three weeks, however, isn't nearly enough time to figure out if you're in that group. I'd suggest you chart your craving and drinking amounts. If you've been taking your pill religiously for a couple months and drinking something close to how you normally would, but the cravings haven't been reduced (not the drinking: the craving), then you may be one of the unlucky ones.

Great - I am one of the unlucky ones then b/c I have noticed no changes in nearly 2 months of this. My hope factor just plummeted. AGAIN!! I am taking the NAL, drinking exactly the way I did before and nothing has changed, just as you say. What cravings anyway?? I have no cravings particularly, because I am not trying to abstain or necessarily cut back, and therefore no cravings. I am waiting for this miracle drug to kick in to where I don't "feel like" finishing a drink or "forget" about one in front of me. I will type in 4" high purple font when that does happen, believe me.

I have had no "take it or leave it" moments, I still get just as buzzed & drunk as I ever did. Now what?! Stay with it, I think, and not be discouraged by whoever you are and your comments like this, no offense. The protocol is 3 - 6 months. I have 25+ yr. habit. I must hold on to some hope and this is it right now.

So Robert, whoever you are, please try not to dash my or anyone else's hopes on here. "After a couple of months if...blahblahblah you may one of the unlucky ones" ?? I think we all have enough self-doubts as it is. Your post was just fine until that last paragraph, which pissed me off with your arrogant authority on the time frame of this method...pissed me off really badly actually.

I'm sorry that you took that badly, houtx (Houston, Texas?) I'll address your questions where they are asked.

What cravings? The doctors who performed the human study in Finland came up with a good way of measuring it. They told the patient "Imagine are in your favorite drinking place. How much do you want a drink?" The answers to this question produced a fairly well defined curve among the participants. Try it, chart your answers, and let me know what you think.

Alcohol SHOULD make you just as drunk as it ever did. We don't actually have a medicine that will prevent alcohol from making you drunk. If drinking with naltrexone gives you the same buzz that drinking without naltrexone, then that's a good indicator that endorphinogenic conditioning isn't a factor in your alcoholism (*see below - admin). There are at least three different forms of alcoholism that I know of and the Sinclair Method only deals with the most pernicious, mysterious, and misunderstood.

It doesn't take much arrogance to say that this treatment won't work for everyone. In fact, it would take a great deal of arrogance and a considerable lack of ethics to say that it does. The time frame presented is based on the study "Targeted Use of Naltrexone Without Prior Detoxification in the Treatment of Alcohol Dependence: A Factorial Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial", which is the one that most of us turn to as definitive evidence of the effectiveness of this method. In that study, after eight weeks the effectiveness of the treatment had essentially plateaued, and maintenance has kicked in. It's also based on Dr. Sinclair's comment in the Int Ice interview that after three weeks, most patients are ready to take a weekend off of the medicine without fear of the uncontrollable desire to drink.

Everybody's biology is different. Cures that work the same on everybody are extremely rare. Even penicillin occasionally kills people instead of curing them. Some people react more slowly, others more quickly. We like to think that medicine is an exact science, but human biology is way too variable and chaotic. If somebody guaranteed that the Sinclair Method would definitely work for you, then I'm sorry, there are no guarantees in life. What's more, the Sinclair Method DOES involve consuming a potentially deadly neuroinhibitor on a regular basis. Indefinite belief that you just have to keep trying one single thing will really just cause you to overlook other possibilities. I believe I suggested a reasonable point at which you should be seeing SOME effect. I definitely welcome other perspectives on what that point might be.

And please don't think that, because I've never been addicted to alcohol that I don't know what it's like to feel the ragged edge of despair for a cure for something that's been destroying your life. Alcoholism isn't the only illness out there.


(admin: I would rephrase this. Alcohol will still give you the same "buzz" and by buzz I mean intoxicated feeling. Dizziness, lack of attention, happiness, loudness, social lubrication, whatever. What it doesn't do is give you that "warm" contented feeling. It's difficult to verbalize what is missing when drinking with Naltrexone, but "buzz" covers too much. I still get plenty of what I'd call "buzz" and Naltrexone is working great for me. So don't anyone be discouraged if you're on Naltrexone and still getting "buzzed".)

"Potentially deadly neuro inhibitor " how can this be ? What does it mean ?

Alcohol. It can kill you, you know.

Robert,

I don't believe anyone here means to offend you, and most will appreciate your input. I think what houtx770 was trying to explain is that some of us fear that TSM won't work, just because nothing else ever did. Then, when we see others realizing early improvement, when we don't, it just validates that fear. At such a fragile point in the program, we don't want to be reminded of the potential failure - we are clinging on because we have HOPE. We don't need to see that crushed this early. I will continue to believe that it might take up to 6 months to see real results. In the mean time, I find faith in this process when I see it working for others. It can also be hard when some of us don't get there right away.

It's kind of like you are putting out the fire in our desire to succeed by reminding us of "the worst case scenario" when it's not necessary. When a child has a dream that seems unrealistic to achieve because the 'statistics' say otherwise, parents often express doubt - thinking they will spare the child the pain of disappointment. The reality is that NONE of us know what might happen, and we shouldn't dwell on the possibility of failure. The children who have realized their dreams, against all odds, have had at least ONE source of support to get there. It might be a friend, a relative, God, or whatever. For some of us, THIS community is our only support, and it's not helpful to focus on the negative.

I know you are just trying to be helpful, but not being afflicted with alcoholism or the emotional battles of this struggle, I don't think you can really understand what it's like. While it's good to understand the science behind it all, what most of us need right now is the emotional SUPPORT. No offense, but you might rub people the wrong way by presenting only factual information. Again, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that we appreciate your efforts. But fair warning - you're dealing with people who are often on edge, riddled with doubt, and fighting for their lives in spite of it all. You just might cause a spark that leads to a fire...

Please keep posting, but don't be upset if we lash out at times. It's nothing personal. Thanks for your time and effort to educate us. We'd all like to teach you how to get drunk in return!

Ultimately, we will all learn from each other, and some disputes are part of the process.

Robert ,
Acohol can kill yes . But can Naltrexone ?

Or are you referring to cases where frustrated by Nal someone might push so hard to get round the blocking effect that they might , for one example , provoke deadly withdrawal or ...ethylic coma ?