I accidentally found this on Youtube this afternoon: Top Ten Reasons To Run From Alcoholics Anonymous

There's a few raw words in there, but it's quite an interesting listen from a former AA member who now speaks out on methods that actually work, although he doesn't specifically mention any alternatives in the 5½ minute video.

Enjoy.

Bob

That was pretty good Bob. I want to look up more about Bill wanting whiskey in his last moment. Any good articles?

Agent Orange published "the orange papers" which has a lot of dirt on AA. I think he's gone overboard, but it's still interesting reading. Just google "orange. Papers".

Bob

You are throwing gasoline on my fire, Bob. Great video. The most amazing thing to me about AA is the fact that it is so uncritically accepted by millions of very reasonable people as the "only real treatment" for alcoholism. My doctor, my mother and my brother for example, are three people I know who are highly intelligent, have no addiction issues but will zealously defend AA. And for every criticism that comes up, there is always the bottom line defense: "It has helped millions of people." And my response, "Because alcoholics are so desperate for change that if you told them to stand on their head and suck a rotten egg they'd give that a try" falls on deaf ears. It's going to take a lot longer than our lifetime for society to escape AA's death grip as the only viable treatment of choice for our addiction.

I liked the video - kind of...I thought it was mean to say that stuff about old Bill W. Why be so mean when there are lots of legit reasons to dislike AA? Even funny ones? I guess I'm just an old softie but I don't like mean, as he's not here to defend himself!!! Who among us could cast the first stone?

I do think that the camaraderie and the feeling that there are so many people who understand what they are going through and are sympathetic is the key in AA. From what others have told me the trick is to find a group with people in it just like you. For me it would be late middle aged women, college educated, urban dwellers, well read, interested in Faith and family etc. If I could find a group like that in my area I might go!!! But it is hard to relate to some of the people I've seen the few times I went.

As for their denial of any other way to go, well, time will take care of that. We think they should all say "oh gee, thanks for pointing out our whole lives have been built on a lie! We'll all jump off this cliff and starting taking naltrexone, especially as our doctors tell us it is dangerous nonsense!!"

I agree that AA is valuable to people because of the communal experience. However, I believe that if I had cancer and there was a group of other survivors I could interact with, that it would benefit me greatly but have zero impact on my ultimate prognosis. And I don't expect people to unquestionably accept TSM or any other alternative method.

What I do expect -- in light of AA's DREADFUL "SUCCESS" RATE -- is (1) an honest assessment of its efficacy, and accordingly, its flaws and (2) an active, ongoing attempt to find other more successful treatment regimens. If there was a cure for a deadly disease but its efficacy rate was a miniscule 15% (and that's being overly generous -- AA's success rate is closer to zero) then there would be a MASSIVE EFFORT for alternative, more successful treatments. But instead of that, I see a society that basically has concluded "the only thing that works for alcoholism is AA -- too bad it works only for a tiny fraction who try it." In light of its massive failure rate, I would expect a more zealous search for other options.

Yes, some of these videos and especially the Orange Papers can be mean. I'm not going to defend it or criticize it. It is what it is. I did not make the video or write the Orange Papers.

However, the facts are the facts. And the truth can unfortunately be hurtful. Is it the fact that Bill W. is dead that bothers you? I know a lot of folks don't like to speak ill of the dead. Or is it that Bill W. seemed to be trying to help people that bothers you? There are many well meaning people throughout history that caused more harm than good. Would that be an excuse not state the truth? I could mention a few people that immediately come to mind, but I don't want to make this a comparison section.

Please see my newest thread.

Bob