Sinclair said three months minimum. We started this board mid-Febuary. Some had begun before then. Success stories here include N101CS, Potato, Marbella, SpringerRider, Craving and others -- all drinking within safe limits. Here is a powerful success story:
http://www.wellnesstalkradio.com/

A major difference between this and other treatments is that, rather then virtualy certain relapse to unsafe drinking, TSM folks continue to improve, and Sinclair found their drinking was at a mean of 9 drinks per week after three years.

TSM seems to work for me. Up to Feb 2009 typically I would for example, drink red wine at breakfast time, strong lager at lunch, lager, wine and finally whisky in the evening. How many units? plenty plenty,,, how would I know.
I could always take a day, a few days, maybe a week off the sauce, but the longer the break the greater the rebound. What I hated was the craving and dependency.
I began TSM about March 2-3 2009.
Now I drink 3 or 4 occasions a week. I could count the daytime sessions in the last five months on the fingers of one hand. When I do drink, I dont go through the vacuuming up of every drop of alcohol around whatever or wherever I am. I may have a couple of lagers and a glass of wine. Very occasionally a bit more. One hangover maybe two in five months.
I am not dogmatic about the method I am just letting it happen. I've had a few less than one hour experiences. A couple of times I've forgotten to have the nal to hand.
Nobody's perfect but compared to five months ago, I'm a saint.
Also I'm lighter, fitter, thinking more clearly, more caring (I hope) , the list goes on.
People who have known me for decades wonder whats happening when we go out for a drink or a meal or anywhere and I'm not putting it away, its me driving my wife home. Maybe it wont last. I can now have days of without the return to drinking with a vengeance.
In the last four days I've had a one session couple of beers. Tomorrow I'll be playing a level of tennis I could not contemplate six months ago.
Does TSM work? Just let it happen! Keep at it.

tommy-

After reading your post, it sounds as if you may have reached the "cured" level. I see you've posted only twice on the forum and have been doing TSM for months, so I don't know if you'll even get to read this. Do you consider yourself cured? If yes, we'll add you to the "official cured list".

Bob

Hi Bob

I do not use the site very often and have only just seen your question. Sorry!

Record keeping is not my strong point but I recently had a long holiday and kept track for 35 days.

AF days 28. Not a single drink during the morning or daytime at all. Seven nights of drinking an average of about 6 units.

I hate to use the word cured, but its so strange to be where I am now. I went out for a drink with a friend the other night for what for 40 odd years has been a real beer session followed by wine and spirits at home. After two pints, about 4 units, I changed to coca cola.

I dont even feel like drink at breakfast time or lunch time. Now this really is weird for someone like me. It does not even take any effort, I just dont feel like it.
All I ever wanted was to have control over my drinking instead of being a slave to it.

I hate to use the word cured. What do you think?

Tommy47

Hey Tommy47 sounds like you're pretty well done to me. But I'm very very new at this so I guess you'll have to get some response from others like yourself who have been around for months. I'm so happy for you This gives us ALL such hope, especially as you say this has just happened naturally over 6 months or so. I feel so happy to know that those of us who just jumped off the cliff so to speak and started TSM can HOPE Please check in every once in a while - more hope for us, and more positive feedback for your success.

It is up to you to make the declaration. If you want to be more objective, use the NIAAA guidelines of What Is Moderate Drinking?

An excerpt from this report has these definitions:

• Abstainer: drinks less than 0.01 fl oz alcohol per day (i.e., fewer than 12 drinks in the past year)
• Light drinker: drinks 0.01 to 0.21 fl oz alcohol per day (i.e., 1 to 13 drinks per month)
• Moderate drinker: drinks 0.22 to 1.00 fl oz alcohol per day (i.e., 4 to 14 drinks per week)
• Heavier drinker: drinks more than 1.00 fl oz alcohol per day (i.e., more than 2 drinks per day).

By the above definitions, I personally have gone from being a very heavy drinker (over 7 units per day) to the lower end of moderate drinker (less than 6 units per week). Success by any sane person's definition.


Oh, and to the original poster: "I'm doing amazing, I'm cured, it's great. I used to drink all the time pre-Sinclair, and after five months, I now barely thinking about it". True story. No effort other than the effort of waiting for the treatment to work.

Bob

That's OK, but my ears are ringing a bit! I guess your comment is in reference to my "no magic pill" post. Just to be clear, during the time I described above I was working to abstain, so there was intention involved. I know that some disagree with me, but I still believe that intention to be sober or moderate, and effort to change behavior is an important element in success of TSM or any method. I have a friend who can force himself to overcome surgery anesthesia. Desire to change is powerful medicine.

Jim -- It's not that some disagree. It's that some here report a real-life experience that contradicts your theory. Fact, not opinion (mine of anyone else's): Some of the cured saw their drinking abate with no effort on their part (e.g. bob3d). If we assume they are truthful (and I'm sure we all do), then it would be more accurate to say that some, but not all, have found effort to be helpful or even necessary to success with TSM. Or, to say, "My opinion is that effort may be necessary for me." This is quite different than saying, "My opinion is that effort is necessary for success at TSM."

It's a subtle but very important distinction, and I'm pointing it out to honor all those who contribute to this community by sharing their experiences with us.

That said, it's important to remember that quite a few members, including some of the "cured", have reported that effort was an important part of their success(e.g. AJ_). And the need for effort or at least vigilance is reported by some (e.g. SpringerRider, Firebird) to keep drinking sessions to safe levels after they are cured.

So we have a variety of experiences about whether effort is required to achieve or maintain results. That's one of the many great things about this board.

Since Eskapa uses the phrase, Without . . Willpower" in the subtitle, I think it's all the more important to discuss the fact that some find willpower useful or even necessary -- just so long as we respect the members who tell us they experienced success without willpower.

"I am working on trying to quit - cold turkey, taking withdrawal meds, etc."

If there's one thing I've had reinforced as I've learned about TSM, it's the Herculean effort required to get any kind of control over drinking once we are addicted. My heart just goes out to you. Have you considered adding Baclofen? It has gotten great results for some, especially in combo with naltrexone and as a short-term, fast-acting way to put the brakes on dangerous levels of consumption.

"I am not saying it doesn't work; just that it didn't for me. Or hasn't yet. I'll continue taking Nal for a year. If it hasn't worked after 52 weeks, then either (a) I'm one of the unlucky ones (and someone pointed out, it has a 22% failure rate - ie a 78% sucess rate or (b) it is simply a psychogical phenomena, and the placebo effect works for some."

I so hope your long-term commitment pays dividends. Meanwhile, we're here for you. I hope you find some comfort in that.

"Does it work? Maybe. But it is not a 'cure' in the sense that antibiotics cure infection; or dentists cure toothache; or removing a cancerous mole cures melanoma."

Most of "The Cured" probably disagree with you on that one.

"But so far, for me, 34 wks out, it is a miserable failure. And of course I blame myself. I would have / could have/ should have tried harder. "

No, you have scrupulously followed the protocol. Try not to blame yourself. It's something alcohol addicts have been conditioned to do.

[quote="lena"]Jim -- It's not that some disagree. It's that some here report a real-life experience that contradicts your theory. Fact, not opinion (mine of anyone else's): Some of the cured saw their drinking abate with no effort on their report(e.g. bob3d). If we assume they are truthful (and I'm sure we all do), then it would be more accurate to say that some, but not all, have found effort to be helpful or even necessary to success with TSM. Or, to say, "My opinion is that effort may be necessary for me." This is quite different than saying, "My opinion is that effort is necessary for success at TSM."

OK, I get you, but, couldn't it be argued that following the NAL + ALC routine IS making an effort, is showing a desire to change, is showing will? So, if you follow that line of thinking, if I choose to take NAL, then I am choosing to reduce so I can take it one step further and set a larger intention to consciously reduce or eliminate alcohol. Are there folks who take NAL with zero intention or hope of cutting back? If so, why do they take it? I am baffled.
Yes, initially I didn't want to cut back, initially I wanted to keep getting drunk, but taking NAL shows me that I have an intention to have a better life. No?