Hi houtx,

I really admire you for saying what I feel but don't have the guts to put down in writing! I agree with everything you have said. Regarding the 100 mg naltrexone dose, I note that this would appear to be the dose administered to the participants of the COMBINE study. I quote:

"Interventions Eight groups of patients received medical management with 16 weeks of naltrexone (100 mg/d)..."

I'm just about to add the latest installment to my story - Virgil's (lack of) Progress.

All the best.

V.

Houtx,

I agree with what everyone has said. It sucks and I'd be pissed off too - I still have some crazy days with a spike in craving, and it seems that shouldn't still happen after 7 months. It's still a mystery to me. Just so many unanswered questions, and probably nobody can provide the answers. We are pioneers here, with nobody to lead the way. No matter what, I just have to believe a solution will come. Please hang in there.

Hey Houtx --

Thanks for appreciating my progress.

And let me say that if I were in your shoes, I would be complaining also. In no way would I ask you, or anyone else, to not be entirely honest about your experience here. So, I appreciate you "keeping it real" as your experience clearly resonates with others here as well.

That being said, I would like to offer a couple of responses. First, the good doctors did not establish this board. Dr. Eskapa comes by now and then, but this isn't his board and I personally am grateful for any contribution he makes here. He's not getting paid and everything he does here is from an honest, altruistic desire to help others. How many doctors have you met "in the real world" who would spend two seconds here if they weren't on the clock? We have countless stories here of doctors who are getting paid to treat us, yet who refuse to spend ten seconds looking into TSM or this board!

Secondly, there are barely any studies to be relied on regarding TSM. And the few there are do not address the issue of the efficacy of increasing the dose for people who have been drinking longer and more enthusiastically than others. Absent the research, there is no chance Dr. Eskapa is going to offer up guesses to your questions because (a) he doesn't know the answers and (b) he will not offer up speculation as a response.

Also -- and I am sure that I too would be looking at the glass as half-empty if I was not meeting with any success, so I'm not criticizing you in any way, shape or form -- the vast majority of members on this board are meeting with various levels of success, ranging from being completely cured to improved behavior while drinking (including no more blackouts/hangovers), to drastically reduced cravings/consumption. If you look at Evan's (LoOP's) spreadsheet, the people who have tracked their results are meeting with success consistent with the studies. Of the over 250 plus people here, I think that it is you and Virgil who are the only ones who have seen absolutely no improvement on TSM. There may be a few others here that I'm forgetting, but unfortunately, the tiny numbers would probably fall neatly into the approximately 10-20% that TSM does not work for. And it makes me ill that both of you are apparently in this group, because I really like and respect both of you A LOT.

In summary, I would be voicing my frustration much like you, if TSM was not working for me. But I've read every single post on this board, and to suggest that TSM is only working for a lucky few is entirely inaccurate. It is working quite well for the vast majority, in numbers consistent with the studies.

And, I'm holding out BIG TIME hope that you are "starting over" at 100 mg and that it will work for you, but it will take several more months. And again, I admire you for speaking your mind and keeping it real.

My best to you, HouTx!

Houtx,

I, too, share in your frustrations. While my drinking has diminished 30% or so and I am reaping other positive benefits mentioned before on TSM, I want badly to be where the other cured members are. I am still hopeful it will come.

I wonder - I read that the dosage for Nal (not the TSM method!) was 300 mg.- what harm would it be if someone in your situation went up to say 200mgs? Would this be worth a try? At least before throwing in the towel due to frustration? Even 250mg for a short while to see if it affects you differently? Maybe someone has some thoughts on it but if you tried it for a week to see if you have any positive changes...

Just a thought.

I continue to pull for you!

BB

MODERATOR NOTE: NO ONE TAKE 300 MG NALTREXONE!!!! THIS IS THE DOSAGE THAT CAUSED SOME ELEVATED LIVER ENZYMES IN 5 0F 26 OBESE SUBJECTS IN A PLACEBO-CONTROLLED STUDY. THIS STUDY RESULTED IN THE WARNING THAT NALTREXONE "HAS THE CAPACITY TO CAUSE HEPATOCELLULAR INJURY GIVEN IN EXCESSIVE DOSES." ESKAPA, PP. 216-217 (REPRODUCTION OF NALTREXONE PACKAGE INSERT).

Thanks everyone, for the support. Like I've said before, I'm not going to throw in the towel, and have gotten to the point I am emotionally dependent on the NAL! I don't think I can ever drink without it, "just in case". LOL But it does make me very sad to think Virgil and I may be in the 20%...

I am about to go out (meeting boytoy :-)) so will write more when I can, but again, thanks so much for being here and allowing me to vent. It helps.

Houtx, I totally agree with every word you have posted. I too am totally disgusted with my progress. My numbers are down only because I have cut back on my own with cravings of 10 plus so that I may live a bit longer. If tsm does get out and there are cures it will definitely benefit the good doctors in some way!!!!! They will become famous and be on Oprah and in the news all over the world, that's just not nothing! I see absolutely no difference whatsoever in me since starting this months ago. I still can get hangovers, I still can have a blackout. I didn't start this to become a better drinker! I started this to reduce both my cravings and amounts to become a social drinker or to obstain entirely. Do I care if I am making better choices in life do to this process, NO, that's not what I am looking for, maybe an added benefit, but why the hell fool myself with thinking oh boy I didn't have an argument with my husband last night because of too much wine because I took Naltrexone and drank 10 units but
I was a good girl!!!! Yeah right! I too have felt exactly as you do but when I said anything before I was pm'd and sort of reprimanded (sp) for my thoughts. Glad you had the courage to put this post here! Thanks Houtx! Signed, Sick of being silent in NE!

Hi LaBear - I'm so sorry. This must be very hard. I'm not sure you want to hear anything else beyond that (I certainly wouldn't), so I will leave it there and just say I hope things change for you soon. This is not an easy method but certainly much more difficult if you do not feel like it's working at all, so my heart goes out to both you and Houtx ... I'm still keeping my fingers and toes crossed for both of you.

Hi LaBear,

I'd often looked at your numbers and thought you were making progress on TSM. But, from what you say above, it would appear that you are having to fight your cravings in order to reduce your alcohol intake. So, it looks as though Houtx, you and me are in the same boat. Is there anything more we can do to help each other?

Take care.

V.

Houtx and Labear
Nobody would want you to be silent or invisible . Apart from the main frustration ,
Obviously I don't know who or the exact content of the PM you mention Labear
as it's a PM but it does seem to have troubled you . If you don't reach satisfactory agreement you might agree with them to discuss it openly in the forum because I don't think you should be reprimanded for any difficulties you have .
All the best .

I feel so sorry for you guys who have been so patient and yet see little or no progress, and I absolutely sympathise with your frustrations

A lack of studies has been cited a number of times, but haven't 1000s of people in Finland been treated over a number of years now? I'm sure the results (successes vs failures) of all those patients would be a huge source of information, even if they don't count as 'clinical data' for whatever reason...

Anyway, all my thoughts are with you guys, still hoping for ultimate success for you

8 xxx