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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:17 am 
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Posts: 749
was that you that requested access? check your email and get back to me pronto, I'm leaving for the day in like 5 minutes.

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Graph Of My Units Over 182 Days

Weeks 0-26: 80, 65, 97, 90, 80, 101, 104, 83, 83, 88, 91, 83, 100, 39, 32, 71, 51, 34, 4.5, 0, 5, 3, 6, 11, 0, 0, 0u

I'll always naltreksonipillerin advance

---Lo0p (resident geek :roll: )


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:35 am 
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Posts: 749
What happened to the "Members Weekly Unit Consumption" page? Can anyone still access it? I can't.

edit: nm, works now

_________________
Graph Of My Units Over 182 Days

Weeks 0-26: 80, 65, 97, 90, 80, 101, 104, 83, 83, 88, 91, 83, 100, 39, 32, 71, 51, 34, 4.5, 0, 5, 3, 6, 11, 0, 0, 0u

I'll always naltreksonipillerin advance

---Lo0p (resident geek :roll: )


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 am
Posts: 317
it strikes me that this isn't really the best way to do this - it would be far better in my opinion to have a web-database, which members could log onto and enter their info - or authorise somoene to do on their behalf. that would have several benefits - the process of generating the signature information that a lot of members have could be automated, the above graphs could be automatically generated, people could see their own graphs etc

the programming wouldn't be that hard - I'm prepared to volunteer, but it would be up to the site admins as to whether they wish to give me (temporarily at least) access to the web site.

_________________
Pre-TSM, ~105 (UK) Units, ~0.5 AF days, Craving 8
Wk 1-8 93/0.25/3.5
Wk 9-16 79.5/0.5/2.8
Wk 17-24 75/1.2/2.7
Wk 25-32 61.5/2.3/1.6
Wk 33-40 47/3.5/1.1
Wk 41-48 47/3.5/1
Wk 49-56 44/3.8/1
Wk 57-64 45/3.8/1
Wk 66 45/3/1
Wk 66 65/1/1
Wk 67 48/3/1


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 749
1-4-the-road wrote:
web-database



I don't even know what that is, but I'm down for new ideas! Are you even going to look at it though?

_________________
Graph Of My Units Over 182 Days

Weeks 0-26: 80, 65, 97, 90, 80, 101, 104, 83, 83, 88, 91, 83, 100, 39, 32, 71, 51, 34, 4.5, 0, 5, 3, 6, 11, 0, 0, 0u

I'll always naltreksonipillerin advance

---Lo0p (resident geek :roll: )


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 749
1-4-the-road wrote:
the above graphs could be automatically generated, people could see their own graphs etc


That'd be neat. The purpose of the google spreadsheet is so that any of us can go in access the data and try to analyze it. Bob, for one, seems very interested in trying to elucidate trends that he has hunches about, like maybe the "one drink per day per month" hypothesis. They way you're talking about this database makes it sound like the data wouldn't be available to us.

_________________
Graph Of My Units Over 182 Days

Weeks 0-26: 80, 65, 97, 90, 80, 101, 104, 83, 83, 88, 91, 83, 100, 39, 32, 71, 51, 34, 4.5, 0, 5, 3, 6, 11, 0, 0, 0u

I'll always naltreksonipillerin advance

---Lo0p (resident geek :roll: )


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 am
Posts: 317
on the contrary Loop, it would - in easier form, and lots of the common tasks could be automated - so that those who don't know how to produce graphs could make one etc. We could have all the data available in table form etc.

the other advantages would be data integrity - ordinary users would only be able to edit/add figures for themselves. We could have 'admins' or super-users with these rights also - for example to have the facility to enter data for people (with permission) who can't enter it themselves.

I haven't looked at the spreadsheet sorry - I don't have a google account and don't want to create one. I am pretty familiar with most things in Excel though, so I'm sure the functionality wouldn't be beyond me ;)

_________________
Pre-TSM, ~105 (UK) Units, ~0.5 AF days, Craving 8
Wk 1-8 93/0.25/3.5
Wk 9-16 79.5/0.5/2.8
Wk 17-24 75/1.2/2.7
Wk 25-32 61.5/2.3/1.6
Wk 33-40 47/3.5/1.1
Wk 41-48 47/3.5/1
Wk 49-56 44/3.8/1
Wk 57-64 45/3.8/1
Wk 66 45/3/1
Wk 66 65/1/1
Wk 67 48/3/1


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 749
could you point me to an example of a web database so I could check it out?

_________________
Graph Of My Units Over 182 Days

Weeks 0-26: 80, 65, 97, 90, 80, 101, 104, 83, 83, 88, 91, 83, 100, 39, 32, 71, 51, 34, 4.5, 0, 5, 3, 6, 11, 0, 0, 0u

I'll always naltreksonipillerin advance

---Lo0p (resident geek :roll: )


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 749
Lena and I thought it would be a good idea to share this conversation:

Lena:
I do have some question about how the data is being used. Since it's self-reporting, based often on admittedly hazy estimates, what is its scientific value? Are there standards for reporting info such as "Years addicted"? I wondered about this one when I saw it because I'm not at all certain how to answer that for myself. I drank heavily for years but it was only a couple of years ago that it was apparent to me that drinking was no longer a choice. So how do I calculate "years addicted"? Also, what about the 11 weeks I took off due to illness? I show my weeks with that time deducted, while WTE took off about 3 weeks and she still counts the time. People are all over the board in the way we count units; some say a bottle of wine is 6 (Brit) while others (including me) call it 5. I think graphs are just swell but should we be clear about what we say the graphs are saying? I think I'll forward this to loop as well because I've been meaning to ask him all this.

Me:
You're absolutely right. I don't think anybody is under the delusion that what we're trying to do here could be labeled as scientific. If someone is, or worse, wants to proffer our "data" as some type of evidence to someone else then they should be instructed otherwise. This is another good reason to keep it private. But it is neat, and it is as close as we can come and we can continually strive to improve our methods. But we have to face the facts, as a community experimenting and observing itself we are at a huge disadvantage...what about the placebo effect? No it's not even remotely scientific.

In spite of all this, I think that maybe when we gather enough collective experiences together and are able to look at a whole body of data we might be able to find out something. -E

But to address a couple of your questions specifically...

1: Hazy self reporting. all studies done on targeted use of naltrexone were outpatient and included hazy self reporting, no?

2: We have no standards for reporting things like years addicted or even whether or not you're cured (unless you use Eskapa's definition from the book)

3: Weeks off. The spreadsheet has a cell where you report DDWON (Days Drinking Without Naltrexone) and it actually calculates your "Days in Treatment" by subtracting this value. However, the data is there and you can add this time back in and compare and contrast if you like. Who knows, when in your treatment you took time off may even be a variable, we don't know. But by recording these effects and compiling them we will at least have something to look at.

4: Units. Units and conversion of units are based on international standards (and exact quantities of ethanol) and there are converters built into the spreadsheet for people to use. It should be perfect but it's not, we're humans and I'm sure somebody will get it wrong. To that I'll say two things. Absolute amounts are far less important to our purpose than the relative increase or decrease in consumption of an individual, if someone is consistently mis-converting it shouldn't really matter. And second, again, there were probably some errors made by the self reporting patients in studies done to date as well.

This board serves at least two purposes, we give each other support and advice, based on our experiences. This project may go a long way towards serving both of those purposes. That being said...FILL OUT THE DAMN SPREADSHEET LENA! :lol: -E

_________________
Graph Of My Units Over 182 Days

Weeks 0-26: 80, 65, 97, 90, 80, 101, 104, 83, 83, 88, 91, 83, 100, 39, 32, 71, 51, 34, 4.5, 0, 5, 3, 6, 11, 0, 0, 0u

I'll always naltreksonipillerin advance

---Lo0p (resident geek :roll: )


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 am
Posts: 317
Hi LoOp

pretty much any website you see that has a signiciant amount of data uses a web-database. Every newspaper site for example, this forum, any sports site etc. Particularly anywhere where you can interact with the site and change the content of a page through drop down combo boxes etc

What I can do, if and when I get some time (mabe next week) is find some cheap web-hosting and buy a domain. I'll put a demo up there and let people have a look. If everyone is happy then I'll see about ways of making it fully usable by everyone here.

_________________
Pre-TSM, ~105 (UK) Units, ~0.5 AF days, Craving 8
Wk 1-8 93/0.25/3.5
Wk 9-16 79.5/0.5/2.8
Wk 17-24 75/1.2/2.7
Wk 25-32 61.5/2.3/1.6
Wk 33-40 47/3.5/1.1
Wk 41-48 47/3.5/1
Wk 49-56 44/3.8/1
Wk 57-64 45/3.8/1
Wk 66 45/3/1
Wk 66 65/1/1
Wk 67 48/3/1


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 Post subject: Re: TSM.COM Members Weekly Update Google Spreadsheet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 749
Ok! I'd love to help.

_________________
Graph Of My Units Over 182 Days

Weeks 0-26: 80, 65, 97, 90, 80, 101, 104, 83, 83, 88, 91, 83, 100, 39, 32, 71, 51, 34, 4.5, 0, 5, 3, 6, 11, 0, 0, 0u

I'll always naltreksonipillerin advance

---Lo0p (resident geek :roll: )


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