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I'll throw my .02 in here. Geez, not sure what to say. I can imagine it's frustrating. Having worked in healthcare for nearly a decade now, I find most people just prefer a straight shooter versus given them false hope. So, here's my straight shooting...there's a chance, maybe a really good chance, that after all this TSM drama absolutely nothing will have changed in your husband and his self-destructive drinking. Not only have I very intimately experienced the very-retarded behavior of alcohol addiction in my own life, I've seen one nauseating example after another with patients. Just last night...FIVE patients out of seven I had in the ER had alcohol-induced diseases. Three of these had hand-wringing spouses who no doubt have been wringing those same hands for decades. I stopped trying to understand it long ago. I just accept it as the foolishness and selfishness of humanity. I treat them kind and have compassion despite their idiotic behavior. Of course, I'm getting paid good money to do so, but being married to such as ASS (Addicted Spouse or Significant Other, as rational recovery calls it) is a whole other thing. I suppose there has to come a point where you and all the other people entangled with problem drinkers have to just (a) issue an ultimatum and give up if they choose alcohol / drugs over you, as Rational Recovery suggests, or (b) just kind of throw up your hands over the whole thing and just go down in flames with them (either sober or drunk).

He likely has a pretty significant aversion now to Naltrexone, as do I, so it may be hard for him to get back on the TSM bandwagon (which he may never have really, rationally wanted anyway). That's largely why I choose to completely abstain. When I catch myself being tempted, I think, "Hmm. I can drink without Nal, but then I'm likely to just becoming obsessed with it and impulsively drink again, OR I can take Naltrexone (ugh...bad memories) and drink without the buzz, akin to just drinking no-point beer, or (c) just abstain and enjoy all the many profound benefits of being alcohol free.

One last thing I'd add, and surely someone has mentioned this before, is that HE has to be the one who really wants to quit...I mean really wants to quit...and you really have little power over that other than the nuclear option. One of the main reasons I've been successful is that, finally, I did this on my own, not even involving my wife one tiny bit in the process of TSM. She still knows basically nothing about it. I had to develop self-control, not wife-control. One of the hardest things you could probably do at this point is just let him do his thing. He has the tools, he knows what you want, he surely knows what's best. Maybe just step back and let him sink or swim??

Just some random thoughts.

P.S. I assume you have read through the rationalrecovery.com website. I like it's in your face, counter-cultural approach to drinking and drugs. A bit of overkill, perhaps, but definitely creates a mental shock to get you thinking. There's no reason addicts do what they do other than they selfishly prefer the intense pleasure of drinking and drugging over other options in life (such as being a good spouse or parent).

hi CFA,

sorry to hear you & your SO are having a rough time of it

regarding you SO's vomiting episode - & I'm in no way medically trained - but I wonder whether taking Nal once already considerably drunk would cause an opioid crash, leading to nausea, vomiting, etc. I would have thought that if he'd tolerated the Nal before, taking it whilst he was sober, there shouldn't be any reason why he couldn't take it again

I'm going to echo barryb4's comments regarding Addicted Significant Others/co-dependent partners. I think you mentioned in another thread that you're attending Al Anon, so I guess you've figured out that unless the alcoholic/addict wants to get better for themselves, then anyone else is going to have very little chance in getting them to change. you obviously care about him very much - being on this board looking for help, researching Nal, setting up the website, etc. - but you really do have to consider what's best for *you*

-badger

I'm guessing that you and he are both still influenced by the AA mythology (powerless to alcohol, one drink will lead to a destructive binge, etc). I really recommend reading over the information on this site: http://www.orange-papers.org/. It contains a lot of information about the history of AA, and how it uses cult-manipulation techniques, and where its basic tenents come from. It would not be impossible to do the Sinclair Method while still going to AA, but the AA meetings would be counter-productive, in my opinion.

It sounds like your husband should respond well to TSM, if he actually follows it. What did he say when you asked him why he had stopped taking the Nal?

CFA I can't really add much to what has already been said, but I do hope that your SO realizes that he's probably at a turning point, and I hope he chooses wisely. He's lucky to have someone like you watching over him trying to help. I think Barry is right in that your SO has to take responsibility for his addiction. Many of us here found TSM and were in a situation of having to convince friends and family to support us, and that it was worth a try. Correct me if I'm wrong but the situation is reversed with you and your SO, in that it was your idea not his. If that's the case, it might speak to the heart of the compliance issue.

Sorry you're having so much trouble CFA. Just a suggestion but maybe you could try finding a TSM friendly addiction specialist? If that's 30 USA units in a day, that's very dangerous.

CFA, Barry is right on the money with his comments. The Medical Community is tired of drinkers as the relapse and treatment attrition rates are staggeringly high. Plus, most DON'T WANT to get better. Most hospitals have done away with the practice of "detoxing" sotted folks, as it generally accomplished nothing.

Visiting a counselor (with my SO at times) helped, but ultimately it was MY decision, and yes there were many problems due to the drinking.

Visiting this forum and following other peoples experiences helped even more.

Still, ultimately he has to want to approach this with the intention of fixing things, and that requires a lot more than you telling him to take Naltrexone.

(BTW, I applaud you efforts here)

Where do I start?

As you have found the alcoholic has to really want to take the pill, and that's about it really.

I don't know why he's suddenly sick but it could be a random nalover which can occur in my experience, at any time on nal and it doesn't have to be logical either.

Nalovers can be used as an incentive to not drink, however I feel that there probably needs to be some craving reduction before that point.

I don't diss AA, I feel much of what they say is very useful, it's the way you interpret and apply it. I've used some of their stuff to help me through the TSM and into abstenance. I have and am also doing a lot of digging type psychological work, and it's not pretty but without alcohol I have a chance of healing.

Look after yourself is all you can really do, and I am sorry you are in the place where you are. You must really love your SO.

My 2 cents and it means nothing. It's not going to end pretty. It's a shame because I sense you've made a big commitment to helping him and being a good partner. You're excellent in your research and putting information together. You've laid everything out for him and he sounds like an excellent candidate for TSM. Problem sounds to me like he's a bit spoiled and not ready to grow up and face his personal responsibilities. Good luck in protecting your own self. Make sure you don't get pulled too far down. Hope I'm wrong. Good luck.

Yeah, your first concern needs to be yourself. If he's not going to change, you have to decide what that means for you.

The fact that he's had a bad reaction to nal and is resistant to taking it is a problem but a surmountable one (especially if the problem was that he took it while already drunk)--the real issue is that he went off it in the first place. We lose control over so much as alcoholics, and naltrexone--something that we can control, something that can be easily taken as directed by most people--is something of a lifeline. When someone takes hold of that lifeline and then lets it go after taking a few promising steps out of the quicksand, it's troubling. It means there's a deep-seated problem that goes beyond both the physical addiction and the mental conditioning. He doesn't just not want to stop drinking, he doesn't want to stop being an alcoholic.

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