OK so I'm officially starting TSM today. Took 25mgs of Nal (River Pharmacy) and had a couple of drinks....have to figure out the units. I went to the doc today to make sure my physical health was well enough to start this and/or to get a "real" script for Nal. I'm healthy and liver functions are normal...Started out my doctors appointment under the guise of getting refills on antidepressants and sedatives. I approached the subject of a drinking problem and my doctor automatically suggested AA, but he didn't really know what it entailed and said that he'd rather me take a benzo every night than drink. As you can imagine, I wasn't about to talk to him about a pill to help me stop drinking. I had just started this week with AA and am having a hard time with the never-being-able-to-drink-again-because-it-will -damage-every fiber-of-my-moral-being, if I am to do so. I mentioned to my sponsor that I was looking for something to help me de-addict myself from alcohol and she said that maybe I was Too Broken. What is that suppose to mean? The plan is have a few AF days and then use Nal on the days when I feel I need to drink. So, here goes....I'm hoping that I can get some support from like-troubled individuals out there who'll go the distance with me AND make me accountable to AF days with tomorrow (Thursday) being the first and with daily check-ins. What say you?
Still hopeful. Maxie
November 1, 2010 - 10 days into this now......7 AF (mostly due to the fact that I don't like the NAL)
October 23, 2010 Day 1 drinking with Nal - 1 bottle of white wine....NEVER want to have that hangover again.
October 30, 2010 Day 2 Took Nal before a competitive run....Beer & V.Tonic within a couple hours (felt good) Glass of wine later taste horrible & couldn't finish second glass.
October 31, 2010 Day 3 cheated and only took 12.5 mgs of Nal. Finished 1/2 bottle wine, 1 beer, & shot of tequila. Found a trigger (jealousy). Cried myself to sleep. Will journal feelings later. And the beat goes on!

Too Broken? I think NOT!!!!! Your liver is fine, you are seeking help on two fronts: AA, and The Sinclair Method - so seems like your brain and will, and soul are on the right track. I know people who were falling down drunk every day, losing their jobs, families, and driving license too - were they 'too broken'? NO - once they understood that this demon we have inside is NOT a moral issue they were able to take Naltrexone and clear their heads - then they were able to see solutions to other problems and on it goes to a better, if not perfect, life.

Being a drunk is NOT a lack of moral fiber. I can say that because I was a drunk for many years. Now I'm a person who does not do well when I drink to excess - but thanks to Naltrexone I am in control of what, when, where, with whom etc. that I do drink.

In my personal OPINION stick with AA if it helps you to stop drinking when you want to stop. Take Naltrexone when you feel the desire to drink is coming on strong and at least you will be using some extinction therapy. Please read Dr.Escapa's book as you will learn that by stopping drinking with the AA model you may be setting yourself up for a let down when you do drink again, even if you take the Naltrexone - this is the Alcohol Deprevation Effect and may prolong your agony. It's important to get your head around this concept.

It is very hard for any of us, or your doctor too, to suggest that you continue to drink and forget the AA stuff. This would be dangerous for us to do. You must make up your own mind - but again, read the book for a full explanation.

In my personal EXPERIENCE the AA model is useless (remember I'm talking about myself here). The only thing that helped me over 40 years of alcohol abuse - and 10 years sober in there somewhere - was The Sinclair Method. Good luck! You are on your way and we're all anxious to hear your story and your progress - it's so very helpful to share stories, and to learn from each other.

PS I'd get a sponsor who was more supportive!!!!!!!

Do you have the book? If n ot, I highly recommend getting it. you can read excerpts here on this board but it hellps to read the whole thing to really understand how this works and how studies have led us away from the old AA model of "spiritual sickness" being the root cause of alcoholism.

If you think AA is helping, great, but I wouldn't expect AA people to be supportive of the sinclair method. The vast majority of them hate the idea and want it to fail. as far as they are concerned it's not sobriety and we are still spiritually sick. I spent 2 years in AA working it to a T. They want you to be broken. that's the point, only then will you accept all the dogma that they want to throw on you. They want you to believe you are a dishonest person and can only lead a decent life through AA. "Unless each A.A. member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant." -The Big Book. (scare tactic) I could go on here, but I won't. I am biased against AA and admit it. i think it's bologna

TSM is a wonderful thing. I had 2 glasses of wine last night. I was going to go AF but something upset me, plus I was already really bored, so i took Nal and went out. had 2 glasses of wine with dinner, then went home.

2 units was never an option before TSM. Drinking safely? forget it! This thing is amazing. One thing though is that on this board most of us find it takes longer than the 3-4 months described in the book. that being said, most report a greater level of control almost from the beginning. Good luck and lean on this board all you want. Search around and ask questions there are a lot of new people here who just started out recently. Great support!

Maxie, you are not broken at all. Our brains are wired to reinforce behaviors that would lead to survival. Encountering a ripe sugary food source like ripe fruit gave early man a rush of endorphins so he would seek out more of the same and survive to pass on his genes. Unfortunately, there are about 10% of us in the world that are really good at releasing these endorphins and we mistake alcohol for a life necessity like food or water. It has a neuro-chemical basis and has nothing to do with your moral fiber. Telling you that you are too broken is about as helpful as telling a cancer patient they have cancer because they are stupid. Your AA sponsor may think they are helping but they are whistling in the dark and projecting their own fears onto you. Don't buy into it. I don't think you doctor is being particularly helpful in offering to introduce you to benzos as a replacement for alcohol. I would not want to introduce benzos to an alcoholic since the two interact quite severely with one another. You are going to have to take control of this yourself. Come to the board for encouragement, read Eskapa's book, read lots of posts and post what you are feeling and going through as you need to get things off your chest. You are not alone.

Thank you BGH ,Joe12pack, and St. Vincent. Last night I took the Nal at 8 p.m. and couldn't get to sleep until 3 a.m. even after around 3-4 drinks. Does this stuff wire you initially? I have the book and think I understand the process, but am a little unclear about the deprivation effect. So, about the attending AA and following this program; I appreciate the support coming from the women, but would have to attend without full disclosure since I'm suppose to want to "quit" drinking. I don't want to quit. I want to be able to choose without worrying about my turn-off switch not working and dealing with hangovers. That is why I am here. I want to loose the "desire" to drink. In AA most admit they never loose it. Anyhow, I feel pretty good this morning, other than the lack of sleep. Doing AF today and tomorrow because of fun things happening on Saturday that include not drinking and possibly drinking (with the Nal of course). I think I'm going to go to AA without a sponsor, so I can listen for success stories. How does one let their sponsor go? I really like her, but don't think I can live up to her expectations. Another question I have has to do with wine drinkers. How many of the "cured" list were daily wine drinkers? and what is this GABA sensitivity thing? I'll keep reading and posting.

I'm a lady wine drinker who's cured. I'm on day 7 of a necessicity based AF time - out of Nal!!!

And I'm doing just fine. No cravings, just a bit of a "gee, I'd like a glass of wine with dinner, but too bad, I can't" Then I think about it no more.

Since Joe12pack has been more outspoken, I'll try as well: going to AA to hear success stories is an oxymoron. You know, like a jumbo shrimp, or a giant pigmy? Of course you want the support that people who have the same problem give, but they are not able to support you at all - you have chosen to use pharmachological extinction and not abstinence (my spelling is terrible, I know!) so what could they support you in?

Go if you must, but as Naltrexone works for you more and more you'll find they have nothing to offer. If you were allowed to offer them TSM and some would accept it what a wonderful thing that would be. But we all know that's not going to happen.

Would it be possible for you to find a TSM buddy? Maybe someone you know well would join you? Or someone here who shares some of your history could be an on-line buddy? You could hang here daily and we could all be your buds! Just an idea.

As for the deprevation effect: from what I understand it's kind of like not having chocolate for a very long time. I know for me when I do get hold of some I cram it in as fast as I can because I've been depriving myself for such a long time - one little piece just won't cut it. I think (please others correct/add to this if I'm off track) that this is the same with drinking. Almost all of us can go days/weeks/months or even years, white knuckling through abstinance but boy it doesn't take many drinks to get right back to out right falling down - all over again.

In my opinion hanging around with people who white knuckle for years and never stop thinking about drinking, or talking about it is not what you need. But please, before I get myself into trouble - do what you feel is right for you. Good luck!

Edit: forgot about your not sleeping question - I had that too at first but it faded away. I suffer from insomnia at times from menopause and that's nothing to do with Nal. I just get up and read TSM posts!!!!!

Since BGH has been outspoken as well, I'll go a bit further.

Why do you feel like you must go to A.A.?

TSM flies in the face of everything AA represents. Why go to a place where you have to lie about what you're doing? It's a cult. There are no statistics that show it has worked any better than quitting on one's own.

for more info on AA that is not sanctioned by AA see http://www.orange-papers.org/

I especially like reading the letters from angry AA'ers trying to attack this guy. Not one of them is ever able to make a case that AA works in helping people quit drinking, when he debunks every one of their claims, they usually result to ad hominem attacks on him personally out of a lack of evidence to support their bogus logic!

Go if you want to, but they will definitely try to dissuade you from doing TSM if they find out you're doing it. and even if you don't tell them, everything you hear will be opposite of what TSM is. The more you go, the more you'll se that they want to convince you that "You are selfish, dishonest,not able to think on your own, spiritually sick".......on and on ad nauseum.

Basically, AA believes alcoholism is a moral defeciency and a spiritual sickness. TSM comes at it from an addiction angle. a medical answer for a medical problem.

if you do keep going to AA, let us know how it goes. I haven't been in a long time. I'd be especially interested to find out how they react if you do decide to tell them what you're doing. my AA friends laughed at me.

10/21/2010 was day two for me and I managed it AF. Tonight will be a challenge because we are headed to a party. The past few weeks have told me that I actually have more fun when I'm not drinking and I know I can drink tomorrow at another party because I have my NAL. I'm liking that AF means no NAL and drinking means NAL, because I don't want to take the NAL everyday. Baby steps are great for me. Yesterday I was pretty tired so I broke out an old meditation CD that put me to sleep. I'm going to get some night time teas to replace my nightly wine habit. I figure any ammunition I can use to rewire my brain is good at this point. It sure feels nice to think I have a choice as opposed to handing my life over to God. Besides maybe this is "gods" way of talking to ME. I've been pretty lonely over the past few years because of alcohol or maybe that is part of why I drink. Anyhow, I'm glad this forum is here to lend support. Great reading about like-minded and not-so-like-minded individuals. I need to figure out how to use the drink tracker, but here goes

Pre-Sinclair: 3/4 - 1 bottle wine drinker nightly

Week 1 - Day1: 4 drinks, one beer.
Day2: AF

Hi Maxie,

Don't ever let anyone tell you that you are too broken. That is simply not true, and I can't imagine what kind of person (probably pretty brainwashed) could say that to you. What good could possibly come from telling you that?

Your pre-TSM level of drinking looks very similar to mine, although mine was more (a bottle or more of wine per night, at most 1.5 bottles, sometimes vodka.) I am now 21 weeks in, and have reduced my drinking significantly. I am not where I want to be yet, but I am getting closer, I can feel it. I have many effortless AF days, and some very moderate days, with the occasional pre-TSM level overdrinking day here and there. That is a huge improvement as those overdrinking days used to be EVERY day!

So, if I was not too broken, you are not too broken. (In my humble opinion, no one is too broken and that is a terrible thing to say in the first place!) Just stick with the simple program, and try not to overthink the rest.

Now here's the program, in all its simplicity, from the book and from the wonderful people on this forum:

1) NO MATTER WHAT, always take your Nal an hour before drinking.

2) Paradoxically, drinking more often on Nal speeds extinction. So drink when you feel like drinking, especially in the early stages ... just be sure to take your Nal first, and ALWAYS have safety measures in place to make sure you don't drive or do anything that could hurt you are someone else.

And that doesn't mean to drink if you don't feel like it, or even to drink to excess.

Just do what you feel like doing, and know that you are extinquishing triggers along the way. White knuckling has no place here. Try for AF days later when they start to come naturally, or when the situation dictates it.

3) Keep a detailed log of how much you drink each day, create a weekly progress thread and share your results, questions and musings here. We all want to hear how you are doing, and will cheer you on!

4) Know that this process can take a long, long time, especially for those of us who have been abusing alcohol for a great many years. The book says 3-4 months, but many here say it was more like 6 months to a year. You will have ups and downs, question the process and beat yourself up along the way. But stick with it. So many people report a change, as if by magic, at some point many months in.

Good luck, and keep posting!

YG

Go with whatever you feel will work. Hell try voodoo if you want.

Just absolutely never drink without Nal again. Keep one in your wallet or purse.