Bob, well put. You didn't offend me at all BTW. saying take it easy is a pretty light admonishment in my book, especially when it's your own thread.

I appreciate your posting, and I have seen how the cured folk fade away. I understand it after being here for a while. I hope i get cured and can be the cured guy in residence for a while, but I'm having doubts. Either way......Please don't quit forever, if you quit...which I know you are going to, couldn't you take a Nal first, and log in once every 6 months on Nal just to test it?

Thank you Bob:) Points taken..I have read the years old posts..And I see that you have been the voice of reason here for quite some time..I see your piont of view..That however, does not change mine..In my world everything is political..I will respectfully concede though and keep those opinions to myself from now on..At least in someone elses thread..I am sorry it ended up here..One last thing and I'll leave it at that..I am not a doctor or a scientist,I am a desperate drunk..I just find it a shame that the "shouting from the rooftops"is left in the hands of the nonprofessional sick people..I do agree that I will, most likely,never change that..I am very happy to have found tsm and this board..I just keep thinking about all the people who haven't,couldn't and won't..That is the part that I see as a political problem..Anyways, thanks again Bob,you have given me much to think about..Goodman

Bob,

So glad for your experience. As a wife, I can appreciate how your better half might feel but I do appreciate you sharing your experience and wisdom. I have spent too many years listening to the old AA-recovery model. Your clear-headed experience keeps me plodding along.

As for JamesCT -

I feel compelled to respond since your post was just after mine on Bob's progress report. I personally found your response unnecessarily condescending. I consider myself highly scientific and found your focus on Bob's results rather unscientific. This is what I would call anecdotal and in no way meaningful exponential or not. While I trust Bob's results are real (for him) they only represent his experience. The Sinclair Method has a history of folks with positive experience which suggest that it takes time for TSM to take effect. So when I said, plugging along. I meant that it would be foolhardy to expect immediate results and that I need to give it time to demonstrate results.

I am also someone who has spent 24+ years trying to do the AA model. I believed it was the best addiction treatment had to offer. I wanted to do the right thing. For you to in any way suggest that we are trying to apply the same blind faith is insulting, at best.

Indeed, you are welcome to your beliefs but your approach was not respectful or accurate.

Joe12pack. I hear you. I don't think you should back off. There is no perfect method but TSM has science behind it and is worth continuing to apply at least for 6-12 months. I've been at this for less than 1 month and I feel like my family is better off than it was during my 24+ years of intermittent results with treatment and AA.

JamesCT, you certainly have the right to speak as you wish but I hope you understand that there are many sufferers of this disease who might be offended by your premature responses to those of us who are deeply effected by this disease. All the best, BTDT

Apologies. I just finished reading the various other threads on this subject. I did not mean to beat a dead horse. Oh well, For the record Joe isn't the only one who was put off by these comments. Btdt

Back from the boxing ring unscathed ....
Thanks Bob , will stay put if it happens again .

So who is agent Orange ? Does anyone have any idea ??I first discovered him/her when at the RR forum . Some people thought it was Jack Trimpey himself . It was said there was more info on AA there than at their General services Office - more accurate too I'd imagine.

His name is Terrence Hodgins,I believe..I am by no means recruiting for the orange papers..Bob is right,he is very politicly skewed..My point was only that he is also very democratic in his letters section and does not censor..He does seem to be on a crusade to tear down AA..I have read through all of his websight and letters and debates.In his discussions he talks about alternate recovery methods..He mentions,MYO,RR,HAMs,Cybor recovery etc..I was led here inadvertantly through MYO,that I heard about reading his websight..The thing that I find Ironic is that he doesn't mention sinclair or his method anywhere on his entire websight..Orange papers was a place that I was thinking was a good place to spread the word about Tsm..But,apparently talking about that here can get u banned..Anyhow,sorry Bob:-))Ban me if u must..Just answering a question...Goodman

Um. I'm confused.

I think you got something reversed.

If you talk about TSM on Soberrecovery you'll be banned. There virtually nothing that'll get you banned here!

Bob

Hey Bob,in your last post in the paragragh reguarding the orange papers you said that the 1st member of this group to bring it up also had the distinct honor of being the only member to be banned for being a disturbance to the group..I didn't quote this as I'm not sure that is word for word..Now if I took that wrong,I'm sorry..I really am trying to back off this...But..I read the old posts in the general discussion section and based on what I read there about the drama over at Soberrecovery,I agree,you guys got banned for talking about tsm..My thought is still the same..Its all about AA trying to squash any information having to do with a true cure for alcoholism..And I see that as political ..AA is concerned only with its own self preservation and relys on relapsers..12 Step dogma has infiltrated our treatment facilities,courts,families and culture..So I must respectfully disagree with your statement that politics has no place here,if spreading the word about tsm is one of the objectives of this board..Everything else u said I agree with..Now I Promise,this is my last word on ths subject..I really am not trying to be disruptive but I understand that my passion gets the better of me and I come off that way sometimes...Have a good night..Goodman

[quote Goodman ) His name is Terrence Hodgins,I believe..I am by no means recruiting for the orange papers..Bob is right,he is very politicly skewed.. [/quote]

Thanks Goodman .

The orangepaper site is great to read but is it so good to intereact with ? I gather you send a letter which will be printed
but they're all bundled together and not sorted by category . There's no forum style as here .

I must say I wonder too what actually constitutes "political " although I've a sense of what is lightly political and what is glaringly political . Anyone want to shed light on these boundaries as they see them ?

Elfern,you must be Brittish?? If not U are still quite the gentleman:-) look,this is so far from where it started..Poitics?? OK,heres what comes to mind..Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Sinclair have success in Finland because theFinnish Government was backing him up?? Doesn't Eskapa go on in length about AA,12 step industry and pharmacudical companies interfering with tsm in the U.S.??Was not every original member of this group banned from the 12 step recovery board called Soberrecovery?? how many members are having trouble getting nal scripts from doctors and Psychologists??Now,some may call these Ignorance issues...I call them political..Im sorry,but there is alot of money to be made off chronicly relapsing drunks like me..And AA is a cult..And what is more political than a cult of personality?? As far as the orange papers go,I am starting to think the same about agent orange,He is deffinately on a crusade to taer down AA..If AA did not exist because TSM came along and made it obsolete,that would also make the orange papers obsolete..Nobody else sees the political potential there??Oh well I won't know for sure until he responds to my letters..Sorry again Bob,But I am really just following this thread..Elfren,I really dig your style mate...Goodman