Nick I know you probably meant well but your last post sounds pretty judgemental to me.

I've been pretty open about how serious I believe my own problem is, I think, there is no point being otherwise. But if I want to have my problem judged by other alcoholics as bigger or even less serious than their own there's a local AA group who specialise in it.

Boy, I keep stepping on people's toes by complete accident. The problem with the internet is that without the benefit of tone, your points can come out sounding in ways that were completely unintended. IN NO WAY WAS I JUDGING YOU. Sorry if it came out that way, I was trying to be supportive. I drink more in my binges than some daily drinkers consume in weeks. There was absolutely no intent to compare myself to others or to make a judgment about your habit, or anyone else's, including mine. Furthermore, I place ZERO significance on how much people drink, be it one a day or 100.

Signed,

Stepping on Toes Completely Without Intent or Ill Will

Hi 8,

The day time drinking, that’s a real *****.

Because I am a binge drinker, similar to Nick, I don’t understand the daily drinking style at all, you probably don’t understand the Bingers perspective either, or maybe you do. It’s like friends and family not understanding our addiction. 2 points of view of the same addiction, affliction, disease, whatever you want to call it. But...what I think I understand is the emotional stress that has to be putting you through, I feel for you. I certainly appreciate the honesty in which you express your feelings and concerns. Because one day, not too long from now, someone starting down the path with TSM will view your thread as a guide to their own journey. Invaluable indeed.

I can go AF days it seems with no effort, mainly because of the horrible hangover my body has to recover from and then the guilt of the last session carries me AF for days. When the guilt subsides the AL Beast takes over again and I’m back at it.

However, since being on TSM, I have found that my drinking sessions are occurring more frequently. I think it’s because the guilt isn’t there for me as much any more.

My thinking is: I don’t want these horrible hangovers any more, I dread them, fear them. But..I must go through it to get to the end. My approach to this is: these are just hurdles along the way. Maybe you can latch on to that point of view too? It’s helping me. Just my humble suggestion.

In regards to morning or 24/7 drinking, I really can’t relate to that pattern much, like Austin Powers said “that’s not my bag baby.”

A rhetorical question that I often ask myself is….if you knew you had to walk through fire in order to be cured, would you do it? My answer? Yes!

Simply put, I BURN along with you, as I’m sure Nick does too.

The master piece of the Samurai sword is created from tediously repeatedly heating and folding the metal. The master sword maker simply KNOWS that this process must be done in order to create the intended goal. We have to KNOW too, or at the very least BELIEVE in the process. I think this is what happens to a lot of us going through TSM, getting heated and twisted and folded. The process brings about confusion, concerns and questions. Our faith will certainly be tested. But in the end, I believe all of us will be master pieces. Very sharp, and very strong.

I’m thinking that if you are seeing anything different in any way, whether good or bad, that’s TSM working for you.

(For fear of making a long post longer I will attempt moderation and cut myself off here, sorry so long)
Please don’t construe this as judgemental in anyway, its simply my way of trying to offer whatever support I can.

WE will persevere. Keep the faith my friend.

Hi 8,
I think it's best not to overthink this and just keep taking the nal. I don't know why you might've reached for a beer in the morning, but I doubt that means you will become a 24/7 drinker! As everyone on the board keeps saying (often to me when I need a little encourgement), drinking + nal = cured. I am at week 15 and I wish I were further along in my process, but I am seeing progress nonetheless. Suddenly, I stopped drinking past 10pm. That's huge for me. But I really didn't even notice it until a few days ago. So hang in there. You won't see results for a 3-6 months, so just resign yourself to that. But when it does happen, you will be cured! That is the motivating factor for me. Surmmoning the willpower to quit altogether would most likely find me in the same place pre-TSM, different time.

Thank you hapful, there is so much good stuff in there that I'll come back to later I hope.



Nick, I appreciate that you were trying to be supportive. You always are, and it is very much appreciated by me and everyone else on the board, I'm certain. This is the only part of your post that upset me. It reads to me as implying a judgement that however much of a problem you find your own drinking (as detailed in your last post) what LoOp and I said makes us much worse off. Well, maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but who are you to make that call?

I don't want to write anything else on that right now. My question was really to see if anyone had any ideas about my situation (a long-term daily drinker who became a 24/7 drinker under extreme duress, and how to best extinguish with TSM) but I realise I may be in a unique situation, at least on this board.

The advice is 'when you want a drink, take your nal and drink!' and this morning I thought I was doing the right thing. But all I know is, drinking in the morning isn't good; I hate it, and I fear it, dreadfully. And luckily at the moment I still seem to have a choice, so I'll avoid it for as long as I can.

I take it as a given that every one of us here has a major drinking problem. If we didn't, we would not be trying TSM. My point was related to me -- not you. As in, during the few times I woke up and drank to get rid of a hangover, I knew I was in trouble with my drinking habit. I, like most people here, denied that I had a problem for a long time but when I drank in the day, it was hard for me to deny that I had a major issue.

You are new here and do not know me that well so I can understand how you misread me. But trust me, I wouldn't spend hour after hour on this board, reading every post, thinking and reflecting about the best response, and posting it accordingly if I were sitting in judgment of anyone here. If I had any judgment about anyone on here whatsoever, I wouldn't dedicate so much energy to trying to help. I believe that judging someone based upon their drinking habit would be no different than judging someone who gets cancer. It's preposterous and could not be any further from where I'm coming from. If you read my posts, including detailed descriptions of my own stupid, drunken behavior, you would know that I would be the last person on this board to judge someone else because they drink too much.

8 --

AsRealityTurns was a 24/7 drinker. Eskapa advised her that two doses of nal a day might be a good idea to be sure she is covered.

WaitingtoExhale has described a.m. starts to her drinking.

Those are the two I can think of. It may help to know that my impression is that those who are morning starters report that this is the first real change they experience -- the a.m. drinking gets under control.

I can relate a bit to what you say -- I find that my units stay on my low end if I start later in the day. I also have sort of a feeling of despair or defeat if I start in the early afternoon. That first drink for me means there's no stopping til bedtime, and if I start early the numbers will be higher, and the day more likely to be a waste.

Hi 8, I have been reading all of your posts and do feel for you. WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT!!! I have known Nick since he first signed in here, as well as anyone can know anyone in cyberspace! He is a very caring individual and goes way out of his way to help. I can just picture him making that post and thinking of himself with that statement and I also know how you felt about it. It's true this posting stuff can get tricky especially when a person is sticking their neck out and putting their heart into trying to help another with the same problem! So, having said all of that I am going to bare my soul here and say somethng that I am very ashamed of and also fear as you do. I HAVE DRANK IN THE MORNING TOO!!!!! Now this statement is so very hard for me to make as a woman! Yes, I think there is still a big difference with regard to alcohol/women/society, etc. My mother used to say a man can get drunk be a drunk roll in the gutter, get up put a suit on and be called a gentleman and all is forgotten. A woman who does this is a tramp/bum and I believe this. Sorry for the digression. I am trying to help you here. The times that I have drank in the morning scare me beyond words and it is at those times that I have felt hopeless and heading towards death!
I can only say that when I have done this it was not out of a craving for alcohol but entirely to eliminate the horrible hangover that I had. Now having said that one can drink for the entire day ending up continuing that cycle for several days into a terrible alcoholic binge. I am not proud of this but just wanted you to know you are not alone. To look at me or my life one would never know this either, not even my husband. I always shower, get dressed/makeup am a great cook and my home boarders on "House Beautiful", a bit of OCD going on there, lol. I too have mostly done this on vacation, but it can happen and it does point to the fact that both you and I have a severe alcohol addiciton that we need to find a cure for before it destroys us! At the very least, if you can control this urge I do believe it may keep you here long enough for tsm to work. We all have to realize if the numbers are way up and it is 24/7 that our bodies may not survive long enough for this process to work and that is the bottom line. So maybe for those who are drinking enough to die on the spot might just want to white knuckle it a bit in order for this not to happen. I hope I am saying all of this right as my intentions are to help anyone who is hurting here due to their/my terrible afliction.

Not much time or energy to write tonight, so for the record 16 UK units yesterday, including my 'blip' in the morning. Side effects are diminishing, and my main concerns now are the daily drinking and my loss of appetite, apparently due to the Nal. Time for a day off the booze and a big feast, methinks.

I've PMed Nick to thank him for giving the context to what he wrote that upset me, as that explained everything.

Lena - thank you, I remember reading on here that if we're to morning drink to consider taking another tablet to ensure coverage. Great advice and I'll check up on ART and WtE's posts again; there is so much here that needs to be re-read.

LaBear - thank you so much for giving us such a personal and deeply-honest post. I will comment a little on what you wrote, if you don't mind, when I can get back here properly.

LoOp - my friend, how are things? Please let us know how you are

Thanks so much for your input WTE By the way, it confused me no end when I was first started reading here all those months ago - so many acronyms in play! I worked out what AL and AF, among others, were pretty quickly, but WTE had me stumped for a little while!!

There's so much to reply to, but I won't write much today as I've had a few daytime beers today from the afternoon onwards...I'm sorry folks, I honestly don't mean to be rude, but I won't be able to write it as I mean to after a few drinks

So then, just to record that the night before last saw my 'maintenance' amount of 12 UK units.

Last night, though, I went crazy. Despite being quite satisfied after just a couple of beers, I carried on, and carried on...and on...I think I just out drunk my good sense, and eventually the lagers were flying down like I'd never thought they would again. Pretty hungover today as a result, resulting in an early start to quell the leftover awfulness.

I've just totted it up and it comes to a staggering 20.6 units...wow, no wonder I felt like death warmed up when I woke.

I'm a bit disappointed in myself, but these things WILL happen (if there's one thing I do know, it's that!) and overall I'm tremendously positive about TSM and the path I'm on, so all is good