Hi 80's baby

Have a great time you lucky thing!
I think the unit system in Europe is the same as in NZ - 1 bottle of wine is 7.5 units.
I look forward to hearing about your trip when you get back.

Cheers
Sticky

Hi 80's - Europe, huh! You lucky dog you. Have a wonderful time.

Sticky or someone please explain to me why in Europe a bottle of wine is 7.5 units and in the US it is 5-6 units? It would seem a bottle of wine is a bottle of wine. I drink only French wine so I track it as 5 units per bottle as I drink Pinot Noir which is a lighter wine.

Sorry to highjack your thread 80's, but the question begs an answer.

Back from Europe, and had a wonderful time. I only had one bad night, my friends were getting on my nerves and I drank a lot while they were sleeping. I felt awful that night, like a true addict hiding my addiction. Otherwise I kept it to around 2 units a day, with another exception day being the 13 hour flight home (although I feel that should be an excuse).

I'm keeping up with the nal and definitely starting to feel a change. I'm not really sure what stage I'm in at this point. I do believe that I am seeing rapid results, and more quickly than other posters; so perhaps minneapolisnick is right and the pill works according to amount of time you've been addicted.

As a test of my wills, I'm going to start making goals for the week and attempting to adhere to them. This week's goal is 10 units. Wish me luck board (and keep me honest)

80sbaby

A week in Europe and one bad night sounds very impressive. It could be working quickly because you are young or it could be "the honeymoon." Either way, it's working and you are on your way!

And don't feel defeated if/when your cravings return. It's part of the process.

My best,

Nick

Hey there, 80's Baby!! I've been reading through your posts because it sounds like you and I have somewhat similar situations, and I can really, truly relate to your struggles. I'm also very new to TSM, so we're in the same boat, but I look forward to being able to compare and contrast our experiences!

Hi 80's baby and HG

I don't know why the units are counted differently in the UK (& NZ & Aust) from in the US. We are on the metric system in NZ and 100 ml wine is 1 unit so 7.5 units in a 750 ml bottle. If I counted US units my tally would be a bit lower but I guess i need to be realistic!

Cheers
Sticky

I just had a 6 pack of beer and I want more. WTF. I realize that this phase has ups and downs but just last night I only had one glass and after nal didn't want any more.t I feel like I'm white knuckling it in order to not go get more booze. Just last night I didn't feel like I was white knuckling after one glass of wine.

Does the roller coaster really vary day to day so dramatically? Sigh. I know the veterans will say wait it out, this is normal etc. etc., but is it really?

I'm starting to wonder if I'm buying in to nal because I really WANT it to work. Is it all a mind thing? Do I really have 6 months to a year to wait? I'm wondering if my "good" days would have naturally occurred without this medicine. I'm not sure if this is working, but have no incentive to stop taking it. Also, I'm afraid that years from now we may all have some sort of class action lawsuit for some damage to our bodies...

Sigh
80s

80's Baby, this is normal. I wondered whether it was real or not when I started too. Don't worry. I reread some of your old posts and you are definitely responding to nal. Some days are good and some are bad. It can vary dramatically in the beginning. Do you keep track of your units? If not, then it's a good idea. The objective numbers can show improvement even if your subjective feelings don't see it.

As far as nal damaging our bodies, well just imagine all the damage alcohol will cause if you continue drinking alcoholically. I'll take the risk of nal damaging my body over that any day.

Naltrexone is a benign drug and FDA-approved versus drinking two bottles of wine a night at age 25 -- a certain death sentence if unchecked. You do the cost/benefit analysis.

Read other people here and every person reports the exact same thing: a roller coaster ride just like what you are experiencing. And your disinterest in alcohol at times is proof TSM is working. When did you have disinterest in alcohol pre-TSM? Read Susie's post in response to Andy M's job loss and see how she went through it as well. You are dealing with triggers, some huge, some small. When you defeat small triggers you think you have your habit licked. But then you run into a big trigger and binge. That's why it takes many months for TSM to work -- you have to drink through all of your personal triggers.

It's working, hang in there. And track your units so you can see for yourself!

My best,

Nick

SpringerRider and I had this chat about triggers in July '09:

I was struck by this critical observation by SpringerRider and thought it merits its own post:

Do not see your upticks as failures or setbacks. These are deeper triggers rising to the surface. Remember, when you first start, anything is a trigger. Things like air and daylight are enough to make you drink. As you knock these high level triggers down through the process of extinction, more deep rooted and often more powerful triggers will surface. Don't let it scare you away. It is the Sinclair Method working for you as long as you follow the golden rule.

I have noticed this myself but wasn't fully aware of it until I read this comment by SR. Triggers come in all sizes, from relatively small to profoundly mountainous. For me, a relatively small trigger is 5 PM on any day of the week -- cocktail hour. This is roughly the time I have historically started drinking (before TSM) on the weekends and always on vacations. During my non-drinking days of Sunday to Wednesday the thought of drinking always crossed my mind at around 5 PM (unless it's a Sunday, hangover recovery day where I swore off alcohol for 24 hours). Since before TSM I routinely didn't drink a few days a week at 5 PM, this trigger was on the very minor scale for me. And yesterday, when I took an AF day, I noticed that 5 PM came and went and I didn't even think about drinking -- it did not cross my mind. And this happened to me on a non-hangover day where I was feeling fine and it NEVER would have happened pre-TSM. This is strong evidence to me that TSM is working for me and that one of my minor triggers has been extinguished since starting TSM.

Now let's move to the other side of the trigger spectrum -- the profoundly mountainous trigger for me -- the knock down, drag out fight with GF where after years together, the words, "It's over, this isn't working" are uttered. I have either said or heard these words roughly five to ten times in my life where a significant, long-term relationship is over. This is probably my biggest personal trigger and when it comes up, my urge to climb into a bottle is insurmountable. It happened to me when I complained that I wanted to get drunk but couldn't get drunk enough on naltrexone two weeks ago. Something on this level also happened to SR when his daughter was facing multiple hours of surgery. These huge triggers will be almost impossible to extinguish. I am pretty sure that even if I were to go AF for years with zero cravings, that when a relationship ends that I will have a huge urge to drink heavily.

In between the minor triggers and the profoundly mountainous triggers are all of the other daily triggers that we will have to defeat on our TSM journey. For me, some would be a Friday afternoon, any party, a feeling of accomplishment, a feeling of sadness, a feeling of loneliness, a feeling of a job well done, etc., etc. Some of these triggers, depending upon how ingrained they are in my psyche, will take longer to extinguish than others. As I said, a relatively minor trigger for me, 5 PM, has already been extinguished. I'm sure there are several other triggers for me personally that have been extinguished since starting TSM that I'm not even aware of. Just one example of "other triggers" would be whatever goes through my head after the first drink. Pre-TSM I'd have the first drink and the second drink could not come fast enough: "Where the hell is that waitress??" Since starting TSM I have not once impatiently waited for the following drinks to arrive the way I did before starting TSM. This is more evidence to me of trigger extinction that I'm not even really aware of at a conscious level.

The moral of the story for me is that the process of TSM is probably a rollercoaster ride because of the varying degrees of triggers that we are facing on a daily basis. We extinguish a few of the minor triggers and are very happy with our noticeable success. And then, inevitably, a larger trigger comes along and hits us in the head that may take quite a bit longer to extinguish than the lesser triggers. We then defeat a few of the higher level triggers by drinking through them on naltrexone. And then we defeat those higher level triggers and incorrectly assume that we are in the clear. And then a profoundly mountainous trigger rears its ugly head and we completely fall of the wagon. It would be easy to conclude that TSM isn't working after an encounter with a mountainous trigger leads to a huge binge. However, upon further, deeper reflection, it simply was a mountainous trigger that had yet to be defeated. And the failure to defeat this mountainous trigger should not blind us from the fact that we have already extinguished several lesser triggers, some that we are consciously aware of, but many that were eliminated without us even being aware of it. In other words, TSM is still working for you, even though you were not yet able to defeat that one ultimate trigger and do not lose sight of the fact that hundreds, if not thousands of lesser triggers, are being extinguished routinely during TSM. We are aware of some of them but most are probably extinguished at a subconscious level. As I see it, extinguishing varying levels of triggers is manifested by the non-linear, rollercoaster ride of TSM. And if we are patient and are loyal to the formula, NALTREXONE PLUS DRINKING = CURE, we will inevitably be victorious in our quest to defeat The Beast.

An addendum that just crossed my mind during my jog: As SR said, when we first start TSM, anything and everything is a trigger: the sun, the air, being awake, etc. These are the tiny, smaller triggers. It is possible that when we first start TSM, we are extinguishing the tiny, daily triggers, i.e., the weakest triggers that we have learned during our lifetime of drinking. We easily defeat these lesser triggers during the honeymoon phase and falsely think that we are cured. Then "The Beast" steps in and says, "hell no" and introduces the bigger triggers in its effort to make us continue drinking. We then face the bigger triggers that take more time to extinguish because they have been conditioned longer and are more forcefully entrenched in our psyches than the weaker triggers, like the sun and air. As we progress on TSM, we defeat the medium-sized triggers and again start to see lower drinking levels than pre-TSM. At some point again The Beast returns with the mountainous triggers that have been conditioned in our psyches for an even longer period of time and it will take even longer to defeat these mountainous triggers. (An example would be SR declaring victory, only to have one last mountainous trigger -- his concern for his daughter's health -- extinguished.) When we finally slay the mountainous triggers, we can safely say that we are cured...

Just a theory that makes sense to me...